PerroneFord
Contributor
Ocean One:
I am a cyber diver.
My first experience with Nitrogen Narcosis!
- Thread starter charlesml3
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I am a cyber diver.
Perrone Ford,
Thanks for the reply!
Ocean One
Thanks for the reply!
Ocean One
austriandiveress
Contributor
Hello! I am new to the forum and delighted to have found you guys, and especially this topic. I'd like to share my experience and get your feedback: I am 47, not particularly fit but find diving within my capabilities and a great experience. I have been diving for 1 year, have logged apprx. 67 dives, both in lakes and the ocean. My boyfriend is a certified instructor with over 1200 dives and of course also my teacher. This summer we were in Croatia, where I had my first experience with nitrogen narcosis after a relatively quick descent to about 35 meters. (114 feet) Since then it has happened again at similar depths. My boyfriend always maintains intensive eye contact with me and initiates a slight ascent if I feel groggy. (for me it is as if my field of consciousness narrows; my mind is pretty clear but it is uncomfortable) It clears up relatively quickly and all is then fine.
I am concerned about this, simply because I would like to be able to dive deeper to see some of the wrecks in Croatia. My boyfriend feels that I can train myself to become accustomed to deeper waters by continued experience. I am not (at least as far as I am aware) afraid, nor do I feel pressed to do this.
So, my question to you all with a lot of experience: can one really build up a resistance to N.N?
Many thanks and greetings from Austria!
I am concerned about this, simply because I would like to be able to dive deeper to see some of the wrecks in Croatia. My boyfriend feels that I can train myself to become accustomed to deeper waters by continued experience. I am not (at least as far as I am aware) afraid, nor do I feel pressed to do this.
So, my question to you all with a lot of experience: can one really build up a resistance to N.N?
Many thanks and greetings from Austria!
I do not know if you can train yourself to avoid Nitrogen Narcosis but you can adjust your diving to limit some of the conditions that seem to exacerbate it. Slow descents, deep breathing to avoid CO2 buildup and avoiding heavy exercise seem to help me a lot. At one time I could almost guarantee being seriously narced at anything below 100 ft. and usually they were a dark narc with a feeling of impending doom. Since adjusting my diving I no longer have serious issues with narcosis at recreational depths. Not saying that I am not narced, just that I do not have the same debilitating narcs that I used to have.
PerroneFord
Contributor
Well,
My feeling is if you want to dive deeper, use the correct tools. This would include helium to remove the narcosis, and doubles (twin tanks) to provide the time, and safety you'll need for pursuing dives below 100ft.
I would also STRONGLY caution you to think carefully about taking more courses with a loved one as an instructor. There are some very undesirable things that can come from that kind of thing, and I've been witness to some in the water.
So to answer your question directly, no, you cannot build up a tolerance to nitrogen narcosis. What you CAN do is build up your confidence in the water to make the effects seem less than they are. A truly dangerous proposition. At the NSSCDS (National Speological Society - Cave Diving Section) forum this spring, I listened to some of the worlds foremost cave explorers talk about the lives lost due to diving air deep. Some of the best divers of their time, and personal friends of the presenters. Back then, helium was untested. Today, it's easy to get (though costly) but it allows us to do this kind of diving safely once you have the training.
Please don't dive deep air.
My feeling is if you want to dive deeper, use the correct tools. This would include helium to remove the narcosis, and doubles (twin tanks) to provide the time, and safety you'll need for pursuing dives below 100ft.
I would also STRONGLY caution you to think carefully about taking more courses with a loved one as an instructor. There are some very undesirable things that can come from that kind of thing, and I've been witness to some in the water.
So to answer your question directly, no, you cannot build up a tolerance to nitrogen narcosis. What you CAN do is build up your confidence in the water to make the effects seem less than they are. A truly dangerous proposition. At the NSSCDS (National Speological Society - Cave Diving Section) forum this spring, I listened to some of the worlds foremost cave explorers talk about the lives lost due to diving air deep. Some of the best divers of their time, and personal friends of the presenters. Back then, helium was untested. Today, it's easy to get (though costly) but it allows us to do this kind of diving safely once you have the training.
Please don't dive deep air.
You can open a real can of worms, asking the "Can I get used to it?" question. Some people will argue that you can acclimatize to high nitrogen levels. Other believe (myself among them) that you learn to COPE with the impairment better, like the guys I see in the ER who can walk with blood alcohol levels that would have me unconscious. But it doesn't mean they're sober, or they drive well.
For me, the degree of narcosis seems to be obtrusively obvious at about 100 feet, and I just don't go below that. I've been deeper than that in clear, tropical water without NOTICING the narcosis, but I'm sure it was there, and I haven't done that in quite a while.
I maintain a sneaking personal decision that some of the difficulties I've had in learning to do simple things underwater are related to the mild narcosis which is posited to exist even at what would be considered relatively shallow depths. (I like that belief better than just admitting that I'm scuba-challenged . . .
)
For me, the degree of narcosis seems to be obtrusively obvious at about 100 feet, and I just don't go below that. I've been deeper than that in clear, tropical water without NOTICING the narcosis, but I'm sure it was there, and I haven't done that in quite a while.
I maintain a sneaking personal decision that some of the difficulties I've had in learning to do simple things underwater are related to the mild narcosis which is posited to exist even at what would be considered relatively shallow depths. (I like that belief better than just admitting that I'm scuba-challenged . . .
)
rhyz
Contributor
My biggest fear was getting narc'd. Previous to my Florida trip I was never below 87fsw. But diving the O and getting to average depth of 105 I was surprised. No difference in my comfort zone or reactions but still waiting for the day it does hit me.
I would like to point something out about N2 narcosis, much like DennisW had pointed out, even at shallow depths you are "narced." This becomes a concern when it adversly affects your abilities.
Many people state the ability to train for narcosis, there is very very little evidence that this might be possible at a physiological level. What has been shown is people are more able to train their responses under narcosis.
A good experiment to see the effects of narcosis is to sit in a hyperbaric chamber at 60 FSW on air for more than 10 minutes. Then switch to 100% O2, the difference is startling.
Yes breathing 100% O2 @ 60' is standard in a chamber. No, do not try this in the water.
Many people state the ability to train for narcosis, there is very very little evidence that this might be possible at a physiological level. What has been shown is people are more able to train their responses under narcosis.
A good experiment to see the effects of narcosis is to sit in a hyperbaric chamber at 60 FSW on air for more than 10 minutes. Then switch to 100% O2, the difference is startling.
Yes breathing 100% O2 @ 60' is standard in a chamber. No, do not try this in the water.
OP
charlesml3
Contributor
Rhyz,
I've done dozens of dives below 100 fsw without having noticible symptoms of NN. I went down to 155 fsw with a Divemaster once as well. I think it's something I was going to experience sooner or later and this was the time.
I made another dive the following day that stayed at 95 fsw for quite a while and never experienced the symptoms. Strange, huh?
All said, I'm not afraid of this. I know what it feels like.
-Charles
I've done dozens of dives below 100 fsw without having noticible symptoms of NN. I went down to 155 fsw with a Divemaster once as well. I think it's something I was going to experience sooner or later and this was the time.
I made another dive the following day that stayed at 95 fsw for quite a while and never experienced the symptoms. Strange, huh?
All said, I'm not afraid of this. I know what it feels like.
-Charles
charlesml3:
What I'm saying is you just didn't realize you were narced before. I didn't know I was narced until about my 80th dive. I still have dives (which I've related) that I didn't realize I was narced until after the dive. Narcosis happens to everyone. Whether everyone realizes it's happening or not is a different story. Sometimes conditions will make it apparent. Most times it won't.
DennisW:
What? Nitrox means that you have more oxygen, which in turn means you have less nitrogen. How does that not lessen the effects of Nitrogen Narcosis? Nitrox gives you an equivalent air depth less than the actual depth you're diving. That gives you an equivalent narcosis level to the EAD not the depth you're at. If I'm diving 32% to a depth of 95 feet, my EAD is 77 feet. My narcosis level is also equivalent to what I would experience on air at 77 feet. That's pretty significant.
austriandiveress:
You can build up a tolerance (not sure if this is the right word, but I can't think of a better one right now). The level of narcosis remains the same. You are just able to deal with it better. It's like Lynne (TSandM) says, some drunks can walk and drive and function without even appearing drunk to others. However, check their blood alcohol level and it's a different story.
For anyone who is interested in more information on this subject, read Bret Gilliam's book Deep Diving. Bret is a world famous deep air diver. He's made dives to over 500 feet on air. In the book, he reviews the training and preparation necessary to do this. It's not just something you do. It's something you have to build up to. Remember, he was doing this pre-helium. It's no longer recommended to dive deep air.
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