My first brush with scuba

[sandhay]

Hello!

First off, let me apologize if I picked the wrong forum to post this in. It's kind of an intro+questions thread all at once.

I recently did the confined water portion of my OW cert with a local dive shop, and it left me with some questions about if scuba is something I should get into or not. I'll start off by describing the entire experience (long, questions are at the end):

The confined water portion was a weekend affair, 2 days, 4hrs classroom, 4hrs pool time per day. The class size was 8 people, two instructors (I wasn't clear -- there was an assistant instructor who was either in the process of getting certified as an assistant, or was an assistant). The pool portion of the class was split into two groups of 4, with one instructor handling 4 students. The start of this was pretty bad for me -- I completely failed the swimming test. I'm more of a lake/river/real world person...tell me to swim to that rock over there and I'm good, but tell me to swim 10 laps and I'm burnt out after the first one. After failing with swimming, I tried the fin/snorkel approach. I had never used a snorkel or fins before, and the swim test was the first time I ever tried. I ended up sinking as I was swimming, getting the snorkel underwater, taking a breath of water, and killing the lap. My fins also kept running into each other, though I eventually sorted that by realizing I had to keep my legs wider apart. There was no instruction on using fins, how to kick, or even if I should keep them underwater or at the surface. I did make it clear that I had never used fins/snorkel before. I'm not unfit, I regularly lift heavy things off the floor at the gym, and I typically walk(at a fast pace, 4ish mph) 4 miles per day, every day. However, I don't regularly swim, nor do I have access to a pool. (note: they would not pass me w/out doing the swim portion, and I'm not a non-swimmer. I just had a bunch of new equipment to learn, and pacing myself without a 'target' was weird, I'm sure I can do it it'll just require a bit of practice)

I passed the treading water test, barely. I tend to not float very well -- at least 2-4" under the surface of the water, and if I give myself a bit of a push to get started I can stand on the bottom of the pool. Needless to say, I was actually treading water for the 10 minutes, not floating.

Anyway, I was apparently good enough to continue with the class, at least they weren't scared I was going to drown in the pool, so..on we go!

First was some basic freediving/snorkeling things. Pike dive and one other that I forget the name of. I had quite a bit of trouble with those due to equalizing ears -- lots of pressure once I got slightly underwater. They had not yet gone over any ear equalization techniques in water, though the book had described pinching your nose (which did not work for me). This was the only technique taught. I

Next was some underwater drills. These were performed while kneeling in the shallow end of the pool, way overweighted. They included "find the regulator using the sweep", "find the regulator using the shoulder", "switch regulator to buddy", and "hover at the bottom" all pretty standard I think. We also inflated the BC manually at the surface.

Then the problems started.

First problem: I went to the deep end to practice the same few drills -- only I couldn't get down due to ear equalization issues. I ended up descending by crawling along the bottom, letting my ears equalize "naturally" at a rate of ~1 foot every 10 or so seconds. The instructor said that was way too slow for the open water dive, and I'd have to figure out a faster way to descend.

Second problem: During my "deep water skills practice" I lost the regulator using the sweep method -- tried about 3 sweeps and came up with nothing. I found it on the 4th, but that was definitely a brief panic situation. I was almost out of air to exhale. I did find it, but it took me a good 3-4 breaths to get myself back under control. I was almost ready ascend.

Third problem: During the "buddy out of air" thing, my secondary reg didn't completely purge. This was my fault, I attempted to purge it by blowing into it, and I didn't clear it. When I took a breath off of it, I got a bit of water. Not a ton, but enough that it caused me to try to purge again. After a couple attempted purges, I could feel myself getting more and more desperate. I tried to deal with breathing around the water, but I failed. I thought about ignoring it and just continuing the exercise (asking buddy for their reg and ascending with them), but my body said "No!"...it wouldn't even entertain the thought. After a few (5? 6?) more breaths, I called it and surfaced. I think I used hand signals to let my buddy know I was out of there, but I can't be sure (the instructor said I just bolted). I know I was a bit in the panicked state, since my buddy said my eyes were wider than they normally are (I knew them before the class), and they could tell something wasn't right. I completely forgot there was a button to purge the reg. That night, ever time I thought about it I could feel a bit of adrenaline.

Fourth: The next day, I went back to the pool, but I had not calmed down yet. I did the above water stuff , and the "walk into the water" without issue (though water went up my nose from the walk-in with my mask on) Every time I went below the surface of the water I could feel a little shot of adrenaline. It was manageable, but I was not feeling good about it. I ended up calling it and leaving the class when they wanted me to manually inflate my BC underwater in the deep end. I had not done the manual inflation in the shallows, and, while the mechanics were the same either way, I had a pretty good feeling I was not in the right mental state to be doing that with 10' of water above me. I'd describe it as being "on edge" not quite panicked, but if something went wrong I wasn't sure how I'd deal with it.

Fifth: The wetsuits they had did not fit me. Their water was heated to 78 and 82 degrees, depending on the day, and I was shivering in the 78 degree water. (82 was fine). The ocean is 55ish around here, and they had me in the same wetsuit I'd be wearing in the ocean. They tried switching me to the next size down, but that was constricting my breathing and cutting off circulation to my arms. At this point they said my only option was to buy a wetsuit.

Sixth: The fins were troublesome. They felt comfortable up until the 2 or 3 hour mark, at which point they ended up cutting off circulation to my feet (could feel my toes going numb). The shop thinks this might be due to the wrong fit in booties.

On the plus side, of the 8 people who took the class, the instructors pulled 3 aside to suggest they get more experience / do another pool class, so they're definitely not interested in just passing everyone.

Questions:
Is scuba Not For Me? Am I a bit too panicky in the water / when something that wasn't even that bad happened? If not any suggestions for dealing with that? Telling myself to remain calm doesn't work when I can feel myself running out of air, or unable to deal with a problem...I never went into full blown panic, but I could feel that I was definitely stressed, and maybe 1-2 problems from getting there. Is there anything you'd suggest I try instead of scuba to get more comfortable with it?

Is it "worth it"? I'm looking at having to spend another $700 to get certified (wetsuit(~500) + open water (~100) + private lesson (~100) with one of their instructors), on top of the amount I've spent already, and I'm starting to question if it's worth following through -- will I be buying the wetsuit anyway, if I get into it? And, if I don't get into it, is the wetsuit useful for anything else?

Is it normal that no time was spent on kicking styles? They mentioned that scuba uses a modified flutter kick, but never described what the modifications were, nor what any of the other options were...I gather there are a few possible styles, with different reasons to use each of them. Barely any time was spent actually swimming / moving with scuba gear.

Is it true that my time-to-equalize my ears is too slow for actual diving? I wouldn't want to be the guy holding everyone else up, if I'm going with a group, and have to descend at a rate of 6ish feet per minute. If so, any suggestions for how to improve it beyond "read about the methods, find a pool, and attempt to replicate"? Also, I could feel quite a bit of pressure in my ears at even 2-3' deep. Is that "normal", or cause for concern?

Is numb toes a common side effect of wearing fins for an extended period of time? For reference, I had the seawing nova fins.

Thanks for anyone who took the time to read all of that

 

[DogDiver]

You should discuss your issues with the shop owner first. But as you must be aware, scuba is an in water sport...... And you MUST be able to swim.


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[tomfcrist]

Holy cow...where to start?

You need to find an instructor that is patient and thorough. A weekend course is never going to be thorough, strictly due to time constraints.

Tell the instructors what you are concerned about, and they will probably give you more pool time prior to OW. If they try to charge you extra, they are shady characters.

I don't know what body type you have, but some folks just can't fit in off the rack wetsuits. I am one of those. Wide shoulders narrow waist and quads like tree trunks...I custom order suits.

As far as numb toes, I doubt it has anything to do with the booties or fins. You say you are shivering? Guess which parts of the body lose circulation first when hypothermia starts knocking? Yup, fingers and toes.

As far as equalization, you may have some remnants of a cold or congestion that is causing your issues. Some people just naturally have issues equalizing. 6fpm is an ungodly slow decent, so you need to figure out if it's a temporary thing or something you may want to talk to an ear, nose and throat doc about. Taking medications to allow equalizing(decongestants) is not recommended, however if you ask around, many people will tell you they use sudafed or afrin prior to the first dive of the day. To each their own as long as they are aware of the risks(meds wearing off during dive, causing a block).

I think you should take a breather, release your anxiety, and get some more pool time. Diving is not a waste of time for anyone whom enjoys nature, history, adventure and good lifelong friendships that develop along the way.

Good luck to you.

 

[mselenaous]

First, kudos for persistence and sticking it out. YES IT IS ABSOLUTELY WORTH IT ONCE YOU ACTUALLY START DIVING.
Your local kelp forests are amazing and full of wonders of the ocean.

Second, see how much you've learned already? Think about all the problems you've had in the pool and now you know how to fix/prevent them. If everything went smoothly in the pool, you'd probably be a mess if a real problem occurred during a dive. Keeping calm and working through it is the only way and that takes practice...keep practicing. If possible ask if you can move to the side and practice with a divemaster, if there is one helping with the class, while the instructor is working with the other students.

You need to discuss these issues privately with the instructor and the shop owner.
I don't know what part of Cali your are in, but I used to teach in SoCal & some good patient instructors who can help you work at your pace. Big classes of 8 on a fixed schedule aren't for everyone.

Also, you might want to postpone completing your class for a few weeks and spend sometime just swimming, and then swimming with fins to get comfortable doing that.

Equalizing takes whatever it takes... and it does get easier with practice as well. Don't over do it, as you can cause as much injury from blowing to hard as you can from not equalizing sufficiently. An instructor that doesn't let you take the time you need to do that is setting you up for ear problems in the future. Slow descents and slow ascents are the best way to not get injured. If you are slow to clear, make sure you are the first in the group to start down, let the others pass and then you bring up the rear that way you have as much time to descend as the other 7 students combined. I have never heard of a measured descent rate as you mentioned above. I clear my ear with every breath. If you continue to have equalization issues, you may need to see an ENT (call Divers Alert Network for a referral to a local ENT that specializes in dive medicine) - it could be anything from allergies, wrong allergy meds, deviated septum, or other sinus issues. You might want to try using McNeil Sinus rinse daily before diving to keep the sinuses flushed out so you can equalize.

Doing skills on your knees is much harder than doing them horizontally...in the scuba position. Be a fish, not a boat or an anchor. When you are horizontal, the regulator naturally falls over your shoulder in front of you. Don't panic, recovering ANY regulator,like your alternate/octo, to take breath is fine and gives you time to try for the primary with ease.

Just because the brand of rental suits in that store don't fit, doesn't mean all rental suits won't fit. Try on suits at several shops and see if you can rent first to test drive it before you buy it. (The shop owner and the instructor probably won't like loss of a sale, so don't advertise it.)

Yes your fins &/or your booties might not sized correctly. Sounds like the strap on the fins might be too tight or the toe box of the fin is too narrow. Kneeling with fins on for long periods of time can put pressure on your toes. If your feet are cold, toes might feel numb.

Stick it out. It does keep getting better with each pool session...same goes for in the ocean.
Good luck and keep us posted. There are many ScubaBoarders in Cal to meet and dive with.

 

[TMHeimer]

I'm sure you will get a lot of good advice (like above) from those more experienced than me. I'll throw in a couple of things. Though swimming IMO is a distant cousin of scuba, it is a life skill for anyone who does anything in or near serious water. A proper stroke and being in "swimming" shape means you can easily do those laps (being in otherwise great shape only helps very minimully). But at least be able to do one lap with proper form. Snorkelling: Not sure what to advise, other than I did this for decades prior to scuba. Kicking, airway control, etc. while snorkelling (descending, ascending, clearing it, etc.) goes a long way in helping with related scuba skills. Floating: Some like me and you are naturally very negatively buoyant--nothing much you can do except "drown-proofing". Equalising: There are quite a few methods--maybe ask other instructors/divers/internet.

I agree the weekend courses are very "fast"--well, same info. as the drawn out course, but all at once. As suggested, more pool time should help--maybe you can pay an instructor for some one on one.

Kicking: Google the flutter kick -- swimming and scuba. I've never done this because I think it's generally assumed OW students know this. Basic: keep legs straight, move fins up & down using thigh muscles. Don't worry about other kicks at first.
Side point: If you ever have to retrieve your regulator for real and for some reason can't (it gets stuck in back perhaps?), you can always just grab your own alt. air source (octo).

I can't say if you should continue or not, depends on how much you want to dive. If you go forward keep working on the basics and good luck.

 

[mselenaous]

As TMHeimer said, research. Check out You Tube for tons of videos on kicking with fins, and other scuba skills - both good examples and bad examples to compare. Here is a good one from PADI. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swPVup2vItM
Notice how much easier it is to do skills while neutral and horizontal. You will find once you get off your knees, everything will get better.

BTW there are some great threads in this forum I recommend reading (the stickies at the top of the list) and other threads that will make you feel better because you aren't the only one who has been through these issues.

 

[Keith.M]

First off, YES! It is worth it!

I just wanted to add on the equalization. You just said, "though the book had described pinching your nose (which did not work for me)"

Yeah yeah yeah... Same thing my son said too. Bottom line, he wasn't really blowing against that pinched nose. He had a lot of difficulty that first day in the pool. But I had him practice at home, out of the water. As was said above, you don't want to blow too hard, but you do have to blow against the pinched nose some. You should be able to sit right there now, pinch your nose and try and blow out of your nose. You should feel your ears give a little pop. At that point you may need to yawn or swallow to get them them to release that extra pressure you just added.

Keep practicing. As I mentioned my son had a heck of a time at first but once he learned the technique, he doesn't have any issue with it. And you absolutely must learn how to equalize. Early and often!

 

[TMHeimer]

Again on equalisation: It seems some ways work for some people, other ways for others. If you do a make believe yawn, you may notice when your mouth is wide open you hear a crackle in your ears. This, I believe, causes equalisation. I don't know if everyone can do this. If you can, you may not need any of the other methods. I only resort to actually swallowing if I am shooting down an anchor line very fast, and then only occasionally. If you can hold your "ears" in that "crackling" position it muffles your hearing--so that big train going by doesn't annoy you so much, yet you don't have to physically cover your ears and look like a dork. May not work for you.

 

[sandhay]

I was a bit worried about mentioning the swimming thing. I can definitely swim, and I can survive if I get dumped in water (no real fear of drowning normally -- my goto if I get stuck is deadman float bringing my head up to breathe when needed), but I'm used to swimming in lakes + rivers, not pools. The big difference being in lakes+rivers I have a goal where I can monitor my progress and set my rate of energy expenditure. Get to that platform / shore / dock and so on. I suspect this will just take a bit of practice swimming laps, not a full blown remedial swimming class. Alternatively, more practice swimming with a snorkel. When I don't come up for air I lose my 'depth check' (how much effort do I need to get my face out of the water), and I need to learn what it feels like to be heading down, before I get the thing underwater and try to breathe water. I had never used fins before that class. I ran into a bit of trouble because I'm not used to having something that floats and is wider than my feet attached to them

I was more wondering...the book said "modified flutter kick". How is it modified? When I learned to swim a flutter kick was: "keep your feet right at the surface and kick with the upper legs, don't bend them" That seems to be exactly the same. I was also curious if some of the other styles were typically explained in an OW class (frog kick? backing up?) or if it was usually up to interested people to learn on their own.

I can drop to the bottom of the deep end without problem normally. I don't recall having any ear pressure issues when I'm dropping feet first to the deep end of the pool with no scuba gear on, exhaling through my nose the entire way down (and up...if I don't exhale on the way up I'm done for 20-30 seconds, horrible pain) I did not measure my descent rate -- I had to slowly inch my way along the bottom, giving myself a few seconds every inch to let my ears naturally equalize (as in, I did nothing special but wait until the feeling of pressure went away) In an airplane I typically equalize by swallowing, but my mouth was way too dry for that to work (tank air, I assume). And a regulator in the way doesn't help.

TMHeimer, Keith: I can easily hold myself in a partial yawn so I hear the popping sounds. I was practicing that all day sunday during the classroom section before even getting into the pool. It did not cause the feeling of pressure to diminish, once in the pool. I was probably not opening something all the way. I'll keep practicing until I can figure out how to reliably pressurize out of the water, and then take that into the water. Out of the water, blowing into my nose does not cause me to pressurize my ears, until I'm blowing hard enough I get worried about possibly damaging something (I think we've all had the experience of blowing really hard with a stuffed up nose and getting that ear pressure that lasts for days)

Re. Equipment, I can try it on and use it in their pool, and am able to return it as long as it hasn't been in the ocean. I'm just looking at the cost of finishing up my cert and wondering...$1.2k assuming it only takes one 1:1 session before I even make it into the ocean. Quite a bit more expensive to get started than most of my hobbies...only one that comes close is snowboarding, and that was $300 for a lesson + rental + lift ticket and I was on the mountain falling on my ass that day. Of course, adding the cost of getting my own gear and a season pass after that spiked the total cost quite a bit. Here I'm buying my gear up front.

For the students that didn't look comfortable enough, the instructors suggested they attend another pool session of the class, I believe that was free, as long as it was another regularly scheduled class. For me, they suggested I do a 1-1 lesson with an instructor, which costs ~100. I don't think they're being shady there.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Yes it is worth it but only if YOU think it is! There are lots of good suggestions already. You are not alone. A lot of people have had problems and goth through it. there are some other suggestions in this thread http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/460001-confessions-unlikely-diver.html

Baby steps and move at your speed.

The swimming problem you mention reminds me of my son. He has never liked the water... even hated his bath as a newborn.. screamed the whole time every time. I decided swimming was a life skill and he was going to learn to swim well enough to have a chance of saving his own life. When he took his swimming test for the last level I required of him ... he would go strongly until he reached a certain point then fall apart. You could see his stroke was sure and strong until he reached that point then he would flail about and panic. It took a lot of effort to get through to him that it was not his body but his mind that was stopping him. Once I got that through to him, he passed easily. He still doesn't like swimming but can when he sees the need.

Sometimes careful thought and self assessment is all it takes to get past the "block". Good luck.. yes it is worth it