My Confined Water Dive with BP/W experience

[Colliam7]

So I will be getting a different instructor and hope it all works out. I will definitely stop with any of my dives if I don't feel comfortable or the instructor is another lemon. I was assured that I will be getting a proper weight check before any dive I do for the class. I will update this thread with my progress.

Please do let us know how it goes.

Also, I wouldn't want a 'take-away' message for this thread to be, 'Change to a jacket BCD for your OW dives', although has been suggested. There are even some instructors who argue that OE training cannot be conducted in a BP/W, which I believe to be complete rubbish. Instead, I offer kudos to you for starting off with a BP/W, from a good supplier (DSS). You made a good decision. Stick with your BP/W, for your OW dives and beyond. You won't regret it.

And, Tobin is a fantastic resource. Sometimes, it helps to have a local set of eyes look over your rig after you have assembled it, and after you have donned it, to be sure that your initial adjustments are optimal.

Since you will be going from Confined Water into Open Water, and presumably adding some neoprene, that initial weight check will be critical. As you pursue your Open water dives for certification, with appropriate weighting, and a pace that allows you to learn, perform the requirements, end enjoy the experience, you will be opening the door to a great adventure.

 

[jscan1]

Wow lots of long posts which I honestly only read some of, I dive the same BP/W So thought I'd give my 2 cents. I thought I was going to need the 8lb plates that bolt onto the wing and frankly ended up returning them to Tobin. When I dove a jacket it took me over 30lbs, to sink in my drysuit, with my wing I use 10lbs, plus the 6lbs for the plate and am nice and neutral at end of dive....my recommendation is to do a good bouyancy check and learn how to dive the wing! It would be a shame to go to a jacket, because you'll probably want a wing once you get a bunch of dives under your belt!

 

[TracyN]

One advantage of a BP/W is that it's highly adjustable so it can fit you perfectly. The disadvantage is that it takes some adjusting to get just right. Generally the shoulder straps should be looser than you might think is optimal and the crotch strap tighter. The weight has already been discussed, but in my experience having a buoyancy check in OW class is the exception, not the rule (I didn't have one). I wouldn't recommend ignoring your instructor and I have no idea how good he or she is, but probably doesn't have time to do gear/weighting customization for all the students. You said you were 230 lbs I think? A bigger guy anyway -- if that weight is muscle that's less buoyant, if not that'll make you floatier. Combine a way heavy rig with tight straps and a floaty diver and anyone would have trouble doffing and donning underwater. After some dives, making adjustments to the rig, it'll get right. After some dives dropping and adding weight you'll get that right too (I started with 18 lbs and now dive with about 8 -- it's common to need less weight as you get more comfortable in the water). As for taking the rig off and on underwater, that's one of those things they teach and I'm sure there are good reasons for it, but unlike clearing your mask, which is something you'll do frequently, taking the rig off and putting it back on underwater is one of those things I've never had to do and I've never met anyone who had to do it in an actual dive.

I had to do it on a dive. This is a true story, seriously. I was on a solo dive at Spanish Rocks Reef. A large jellyfish landed on my head. Of course I was carrying a dive flag so in the process of me flailing around trying to get the thing off my face the line for my flag got wrapped around the tank valve. The only way to get free was to take the rig off and untangle the line. Granted it was only in 20 ft of water, lol!

 

[Six Feet Under]

I have had only one diver our of several dozen I have helped set up BPW's not be able to get a std harness to fit right. His build just did not lend itself to one. I put him in a manta hr3 harness with a chest strap and adjustable shoulder straps. Once we did this it took all of 15 minutes to get it adjusted. The funny thing is that now he never adjusts the shoulder straps. It all had to do with the angle of them on his body. I do know that there is one mfg looking at an h harness to use with bpw setups. Similar to what a number of sidemount rigs use.

For those who I have helped with standard one piece harnesses it has taken about a half hour in the water to get them close to what I'd say was 90%. There is still some tweaking involved due to webbing stretching, getting the d rings and buckle just right, etc. But then I've done a few of these.

Whenever I sell one to a local customer I try to get them in the pool to set it up. Part of the purchase / service. No extra cost for this.

Where I see the biggest problems is with those who can't seem to accept that they don't need all the weight they were told they did.

The first thing I do with every student is a weight check without the rig. Just exposure suit and mask, snorkel, fins. Then with the rig and a full tank. Followed by one with a tank with 500-700 psi.

Every pool session starts with a proper weight check. It is not uncommon for students to adjust their weights several times during the pool training. To not have them do this is just unthinkable to me. What are they supposed to do on their ow checkouts? Have me tell them what they need? Not gonna happen.

Standards call for students to be neutral in open water. That to me means properly weighted. The only way to do that is with proper checks. Anything else is just laziness on the part of the instructor. Maybe some incompetence thrown in as well.

What type of build did he have? If you don't want to post it in here, PM me if you don't mind. I'm wondering if I'm dealing with the same issue.

 

[halocline]

I have a DSS SS backplate with a 30 pound wing and bolt on 8 pound weights and a backplate attached quick release weight system on my hogarthian harness at the waist. Dove with 7mm wetsuit and boots. Instructor told me to put a total of 20 pounds into my weight system which I did..... Doing the entire bcd removal under water was difficult because all the weight was on the bcd and I had to really struggle and balance to stay in place on the ground.

So, if the instructor said 20 total lbs, that means you have 6 lbs in weights on the waist belt? That's 6 for the steel plate, 8 for the bolt on plates, and the remaining 6 on your waist. Is that correct or am I misunderstanding? That doesn't sound too bad, but if you put an additional 20 lbs of lead on a system that's already 14lbs negative, that's very heavy.

Anyhow, with lots of weight and a thick wetsuit, it's much much better to split up the weight between the rig and your body so that both are somewhere near neutral at depth. This is sometimes referred to as a 'balanced rig'. (although others on this forum use the term differently) I don't see how anyone could do a doff/don underwater without having a set up like this because if all your weight is on the rig, as soon as you take it off it becomes an anchor and you end up hanging onto it upside down.

It's always humorous how quickly some people on this forum will trash an instructor without any direct knowledge of the class situation, but leaving that issue alone, I would suggest that you try to get in a pool this week before your OW dives and practice with some of the weight split up between your body and the rig.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

What type of build did he have? If you don't want to post it in here, PM me if you don't mind. I'm wondering if I'm dealing with the same issue.

Average height but barrel chested. Std harness wanted to keep sliding. With a smaller person you can sometimes cross the straps. With this person no way. On top of that due to his chest being so broad the shoulder straps literally were cutting into his armpits.

 

[EFX]

DaK1, I am your height and weight and I need 24 lbs total to dive in a 7 mm full with hood, gloves, and boots. I just bought a single tank wing and STA (I have the BP and harness already) and can't wait to try it out. I have a SS BP = 6 lbs, STA = 1.5. To get to 24 lbs I need 18 lbs in removable waist pockets. Based on advice mentioned elsewhere on SB it's best to have as little weight as possible around your waist. I'm going to try to shift some of the weight to tank strap pockets and see how I do on trim.

 

[KevinNM]

It really varies by person and what gear you use. I went through this with an instructor on my new to me Halcyon infinity and we ended up with all the weight on the BP/W waistbelt, none on the tanks and I'm still a bit head heavy. With my old BCD I had about 5 pounds on the top of the tank to get fairly flat.

 

[Akimbo]

…the OP already said is using a DSS BP\W system - DSS has the equivalent of the Halcyon Cinch called Glide to quickly loosen one strap - the OP should get one to facilitate adjustments.

I set all my backplates so both straps slide in the lower backplate slots. Pull shoulder straps and you are out and it is easy to don the next dive. Pull the belly straps and you are snug and ready to splash. This has worked well decades before there were wings and back plates and works great now.

 

[BobBaisden]

I set all my backplates so both straps slide in the lower backplate slots. Pull shoulder straps and you are out and it is easy to don the next dive. Pull the belly straps and you are snug and ready to splash. This has worked well decades before there were wings and back plates and works great now.

Akimbo, did you modify the lower backplate slots? From your photos, its looks like you are using a pvc roller with a d-ring?
Thanks
Bob