my bouyancy sucks, going to take a private session, HELP!

[mangoconchile]

During my open water class I admittedly breezed thru alot of the online material due to me being short on time. I read the parts that interested me(equipment, decompression, beach vs boat dives) and skipped some other stuff(buoyancy). my buoyancy sucked hard during my OW course as the instructor never really conducted a proper weight check as most of our time was spent on our knees going over hand signals, etc....we did do a fin pivot and oral inflation but at the time i didnt know what the benefit of it was going to be(now i know). contacted my LDS and one of the instructors offered me a private session(s) at $75 a tank OR i could do my advanced OW class which included peak performance buoyancy for $200(which included 2 beach dives and 3 boat dives). not wanting to turn down a good deal I decided to take the class. I was handed the PADI 'adventures in diving' manual which included a chapter on buoyancy but I didnt get a chance to read it before the class as the instructor didnt communicate to me I needed to read it along with some other chapters. so again I went out to dive again without reading the proper material(didn't know I had to read it). I did pretty decent but definately need some help with buoyancy and navigation.


before i get my session Ive done alot of reading and have a good understanding of what affects it during a dive. here is what ive learned over the past few days. i want to make sure this is accurate or if anyone else has any advice or any crucial information im missing. i want to be as prepared as possible so i dont waste my money. during the dive i will be using a back inflated BCD, a 7mm wet suit diving in salt water. i used a weight check calulator which determine my weight to be around 24lbs but i will check it during the dive.


1)If I conduct a weight check before a dive with a full tank of air(AL80), i should add 4-5 pounds to whatever my proper weight is to compensate for my empty tank at the end of a dive.

2)once the weight check is complete, the way i plan on descending is at the surface hold my breath, deflate my bcd slight until my head sinks then slowly exhale. would that work? ive had problems where i descending too quickly.

3)over the course of my dive, im mostly going to be deflating my BCD to adjust buoyancy to compensate for my depleting tank.

4)take slow deep breaths

5)whats the best way to ascend? id love to be able to stay neutraly buoyant during a safety stop or a decompression stop at some point and just swim up to the proper depth and stay there without much effort. during my advanced class i saw guys dumping all of their AIR from thier BCD and using thier legs constantly to stay at around 15-20 in a vertical position.

 

[Steve_C]

A lot of it comes from practice and paying attention to how your body feels in the water.

During a dive I may add a little or remove a little from my BCD. It depends on the dive. For example if I am at 20 and go down to 30 I will probably add a small amount. If I then go up to 20 again I will let a little out. Make small adjustments. Change your depth slowly. It is good practice, conditions permitting, to descend a bit and stop. Descend a bit and stop.

The intro courses are stripped down. They do not put anything in there that you don't need. The assumption is that you read the book with the goal of learning the material and not just asking a few questions at the end.

If you do not understand the purpose of something, ask the instructor.

 

[00wabbit]

Dude. You are on the right track by being aware of all this. But you really need to just practice. No one takes a class then has perfect bouyancy. Bouyancy is a constant improvement. It comes from time and self assessment as well as learning from others.

Its good you are aware. Now you need to practice. It seems like it will never come to you but it will. I really started getting comfortable around 70 dives but I still feel embarrassed when diving around tech divers.


The best way to get you weight right is to have 500psi in tank and go to 15ft. If you sink with no air in bc then remove a little weight and try again. Once you figure out how much weight you need then you can move it around (up and down your body) to give good horizontal trim. Once you figure this out it will feel a lot more comfortable.

But seriously. Dive dive dive and self assess and talk to divers better than you. Take a class if you feel it will help but know that you will not walk out of a class having mastered bouyancy. If your instructor feels you really need the extra help then consider it.

 

[TSandM]

You've got some excellent points there.

But you shouldn't have problems with descending too fast, if you aren't overweighted. Being about 5 pounds negative at the beginning of the dive, given that your neoprene hasn't compressed at all yet (or your dry suit may still have a bit of air in it) means a pretty slow descent through the first ten feet or so, and by that time, you will have added a little air and you won't be plummeting.

I had a lot of trouble with descents at the beginning. What NW Grateful Diver taught me was to hold up my BC inflator, push the deflate button, and take a deep breath. As my eyes got to the water, I was to EXHALE hard and hold it. This would get me down the first, most difficult three feet or so. But it will only work if you are not kicking at the surface, because of course, any kicking that you do is pushing you back up OUT of the water. So I was to cross my ankles with my knees somewhat bent -- then, as you go down, you aren't kicking yourself up, AND your bent knees will cause the water to catch your fins and push you into a nice, horizontal position. It works beautifully.

As far as ascending goes, if you have been neutral while diving (which again requires that your fins not be pointed downward -- I'll give you a reference at the end of this post as to why) then all you have to do to begin to ascend is start breathing with very full lungs. Once you start to move up, you can try exhaling sharply again. If you stop, you're fine; inhale again and move up some more. If you don't stop, you need to vent your BC to return to neutral. An ascent carried out this way will always be under control, because you will never be very far off neutral. Of course, it takes some practice. I do some yoga videos done by a great guy named Sean Vigue. He says, "Balance is never given, it is always earned." Buoyancy is exactly the same way!

The site reference for the article on the impact of trim is this:What's so important about trim? | Theory Articles | Articles | DiveDIR This is one piece, but there are others. Any time you spend reading Gareth's EXCELLENT materials will be time well spent.

 

[mangoconchile]

Dude. You are on the right track by being aware of all this. But you really need to just practice. No one takes a class then has perfect bouyancy. Bouyancy is a constant improvement. It comes from time and self assessment as well as learning from others.

Its good you are aware. Now you need to practice. It seems like it will never come to you but it will. I really started getting comfortable around 70 dives but I still feel embarrassed when diving around tech divers.


The best way to get you weight right is to have 500psi in tank and go to 15ft. If you sink with no air in bc then remove a little weight and try again. Once you figure out how much weight you need then you can move it around (up and down your body) to give good horizontal trim. Once you figure this out it will feel a lot more comfortable.

But seriously. Dive dive dive and self assess and talk to divers better than you. Take a class if you feel it will help but know that you will not walk out of a class having mastered bouyancy. If your instructor feels you really need the extra help then consider it.

I hear you, and know more practice is ultimately what I will need. However prior to my advanced class there was some critical information I lacked regarding buoyancy, such as constantly adjusting it during your dive based on depths and air left in your tank. I was under the the impression that once you have neutral buoyancy at the beginning of the dive you are good for the rest of the dive. That's what I'm trying to figure out here, if there is any other important information I'm missing.

 

[Goodtime Adventures]

There's no substitute for practice regarding buoyancy. Some divers are lucky and nail it straight away, for most it takes lots of practice and experimentation with weighting and trim.

What's great is that you have really taken the time to understand the theory behind what you are about to do. I have a some advice based on what you have said:

1) IMO the guidelines PADI provide for weight estimation end up with some divers being a little over-weighted. You'll understand from your reading this will affect your trim in the water, making you less hydrodynamic. You'll also need more air in your BCD to maintain neutral buoyancy. The more air you have in your BCD, the more your buoyancy is affected my small depth changes as there is more air to expand / contract in your gear.

2) Descending too quickly is a pretty strong indication that you are wearing too much weight. As you empty your BCD at the surface to descend you should need to exhale and the descent should start very slowly. You could also try venting air from your BCD gradually so you can control your descent, and be ready to add a small amount of air to stabilize if you are descending ahead of your group. I have occasionally seen instructors over weight their students, especially on OW to avoid divers ascending too quickly. It could also be that you were nervous or excited at the time of your dives, and were holding more air in your lungs than you thought - it happens easily!

3) Yes once you have achieved neutral buoyancy at depth, most of your adjustments should be releasing air to compensate for the increased buoyancy of an emptier tank. Other factors to consider are exposure suit expansion as you become shallower. But don't assume this will be the case. You should stop regularly and just observe what is happening as you breathe. You should be able to swim as slowly as you want and still maintain your position in the water column.

4) Yes breathe slowly and steadily, but you should keep your breaths within your normal breathing volume. You should not try to inhale and exhale as much as possible as the more air you breathe in and out, the more your buoyancy will be affected and you may feel you are going up and down a bit.

5) On ascent your goal is for it to be slow and effortless, with a neutral hover at 5m / 15'. Dumping air and kicking will take more effort, increases respiration rate and reduces the effectiveness of your safety stop. You should be breathing slowly with minimal air in your BCD. If you are not over-weighed you should find this easier. Remember to keep your final ascent from the safety stop as slow as possible.

Some things to try in the future:
1) Ask your instructor to give you less weight, but you can ask them to carry your removed weights for you during the dive. That way you can be reassured that you can add more weight if you need it towards the end of the dive. It's a LOT more comfortable to dive when you have just enough weight on
2) Really focus on breathing out during your dive. You're getting more experienced so should be able to relax the more you dive
3) Remember that the buoyancy dive as part of the advanced course is not designed to make you perfect in the water, but it is designed to give you a repertoire of skills and techniques that you can practice on every dive. It really is all about practice!!

Good luck and happy bubbles!

 

[DevonDiver]

Seeking supplementary/remedial training is a good idea. It will fast-track you beyond months or years of experimentation and learning from mistakes. The one caveat: you must find a truly credible instructor with the necessary expertise to teach you. Such instructors are a rare commodity. Typically, look for a well regarded, pedigree, instructor with a technical and/or cave diving background.

For knowledge development, have a look at my Buoyancy Masterclass articles

For demonstrations, do see the 5thD-X videos on Youtube..

 

[00wabbit]

I hear you, and know more practice is ultimately what I will need. However prior to my advanced class there was some critical information I lacked regarding buoyancy, such as constantly adjusting it during your dive based on depths and air left in your tank. I was under the the impression that once you have neutral buoyancy at the beginning of the dive you are good for the rest of the dive. That's what I'm trying to figure out here, if there is any other important information I'm missing.

Basically neutral bouyancy exists in a window. For any given depth once you reach neutral you will still move up and down slightly as you breath in and out. This can be a couple of ft up and down as you breath. As long as your depth remains consistent and your breathing pattern is consistent then you will stay in this window. If you move out of this window you will have to adjust to get neutral again. So if you swim up a little you need to anticipate dumping a little air and if you are decending anticipate this and add a little air to control the descent. Once you arrive at the depth you want to be at get neutral. Understand also that if your breathing pattern changes or you get stressed then you may start to go up out of the window a bit because you are breathing shallower or not emptying your lungs to the same amount as at rest.
I had to watch this when I take photos because I would tend to hold my breath for a second while I shot and this would move me out of the neutral "window" Now I try to be better and maintain steady breathing while taking photos so I don't move out of the window.

 

[j_b78]

I've debated whether or not to reply to this...
You will probably find that you are currently diving over weighted as instructors tend to prefer their ow students nailed to the bottom rather than risk a rapid ascent so once your weighting is better, buoyancy control will become easier however... you signed up for an entry level diving course and failed to read the training manual, you then discovered that your buoyancy was lacking so signed up for your aow and again you failed to read the section on buoyancy again. Seriously, do you think diving is for you? Buoyancy control isn't just about protecting coral etc, it is what stops you plummeting to your death on a wall dive and what prevents you heading to the surface like an missile on the way to the chamber.
Please give it the consideration it deserves.

Sent from my GT-P5110 using Tapatalk 2

 

[supergaijin]

During my open water class I admittedly breezed thru alot of the online material due to me being short on time. I read the parts that interested me(equipment, decompression, beach vs boat dives) and skipped some other stuff(buoyancy).... I was handed the PADI 'adventures in diving' manual which included a chapter on buoyancy but I didnt get a chance to read it before the class as the instructor didnt communicate to me I needed to read it along with some other chapters. so again I went out to dive again without reading the proper material(didn't know I had to read it).

Firstly it's great that you're interested in bettering your understanding of buoyancy... however to improve your buoyancy you need water-time.

As an instructor I often get students showing up at class not having read the materials that were given to them with the instruction to "read and complete the materials before coming to class". Just sayin'...

i want to be as prepared as possible so i dont waste my money again.

FIFY