My AN/DP/Helitrox course

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Hi all,
I am a longtime lurker of SB and this thread but felt compelled to sign up in order to respond. @Dive Right In Scuba I am extremely disappointed in your response a few pages back. To air such frustrations and negativity in this public forum is shameful and unprofessional at best. There is nothing that I saw in any of @Marie13 ‘s posts that would constitute “bashing” or negativity. Is it true you will not help divers board your boat with their tanks? That’s fine, it’s completely your choice, and sharing that fact is just truth, not “bashing”. In fact her continued commitment to receiving instruction, training, and diving with you should show how committed she is to your organization. To respond with that level of public humiliation to a long term customer instead of a one on one discussion is not how one does business.
And regarding the others who are passing judgment on @Marie13 - who are you to judge? Has she said anything that would indicate she chooses to willfully dive past her limits? Or that she wants to forego proper training? (The limits put in place by DRIS were for doubles - a new configuration for her. The next dives she did were in a single tank config.) The fact that she seeks feedback here and is still determined to continue following her passion despite the fact it’s not coming easily shows that she is of the learning mindset. Personally, I am not a naturally good diver. I am a naturally middling diver who worked - and continues to work - really hard to become a good diver. There is no such thing as a naturally born real tech diver and anyone who uses that phrase is a true ass hat. Or maybe some of you came out of the womb with a perfect hover and back kick in which case I tip my hat to you good sirs. Put your sticks down and try to show some human decency, support, and helpful solutions for someone who is pursuing this passion we all share.

Have you ever dived with her or seen her in the water? Do you have ANY first hand experience with what Mike and his team have done for her over the past four years?

If not, which is what I suspect, than I'm not sure it's fair for you to be jumping on the thread and lecturing Mike.
 
DRIS may be responding to the claim that they will only provide 'minimal help' to divers.

They also describe that the ladder is just a small part of their concern with this diver. Clearly DRIS imposing a 60' depth limit on this diver would not come from concerns about them climbing the ladder.

I know nothing more than is on the board. But reread DRIS's message.

Well, Marie13, I'm not sure how to respond to this without it coming out as bashing, but I will try. It seems again, you're intentionally starting things, and not telling full stories. Leading others to bash us, and encourage the fire brigade.

I'm not going to get into details and everything here, I don't want to hurt you as you seem to want to do to us, regardless of the hours/years of help we put in, in class, in the pool, in the store. All to help grow your passion, even though your dive skills don't follow that same growth. My crew has thrown out their backs hauling you onto the boat. It's different when someone needs a "hand". When I have to have them literally drag you up the ladder, it's not safe. If it happened once, OK....when it happens ALL SUMMER, every trip, every year, and you scream and yell at the crew...NO. How you are diving, is unsafe, your not currently able to do what we expect a normal diver to do diving with us. You can't lift a bottle to the crew from the water, let's be honest. I can't even imagine what would happen if you tried to clip one off on the line. I won't get into all of the other things you can't do, as I'm not here to bash you. I just don't know how to rebutt what you're leading others to think of us, if I can't mention all of these things I should say. It's not the place here, and I wouldn't do that to someone, but you know all of them, it's been spelled out for you from your Instructor. With everything you've insinuated, and allowing others to say about us, my tongue really hurts from how hard I'm biting it right now.

We gave you strict rules to dive off our boat, specific to you, based on you as a diver and the progressions you have had over the years. That was only with a single tank under 60ft, for now, for your safety. You now want to go back to sidemount, which didn't work for you previously. Nothing has anything to do with your age, or anything other than you're trying to do more, than your skill allows, and we won't be apart of it anymore, you're acting unsafe. I'm done getting bashed by you publicly, while you're in the store everyday and we try to work with you, and help you. You either like us or you don't. I appreciate that you have other charters to dive off, and highly encourage that going forward.

This sport isn't for the weak, and unfortunately, not everyone is at the same level, and not everyone can progress. I won't allow someone to dive beyond their ability, their skill, their gear tolerance, and get themselves or my crew hurt or killed. There are enough things in this sport trying to kill us already.

I've tried my best to not bash you Marie13, yet still be able to tell another side of this story. Unfortunately, I can't combat everything everyone says, as all I would do is paint the real story, and destroy your Image. At the same time, I'm done watching this every few months where you twists and exaggerate truths to rile people up. I'm sorry to anyone that doesn't agree with me putting this here, but there is no way to softly tell these parts of the stories. I've done the best I can to shed light on our side here, and have no clue how else to do it. I didn't bring this conversation here, all I can do is tell the full truth, while not bashing someone from every detail, every instance, every moment over the years.

150' dive, isn't a wimpy dive. I'm sorry, but that's not nearly the case,and I think it's reckless to take a dive like that for granted or even think she is capable of that kind of dive!

Also, her Instructor never told her to quit, I'm not sure where that comes from. He did limit her, after a near death experience, to 60ft ceiling and a single tank...while also outlining specifics of why, and things to work on, and in what order to expand. A few days later she informed the instructor she did a dive to 85ft, completely disregarding his recommendations for her and her buddies safety. Everything, and everyone helping has gone above and beyond to help someone with extreme passion, and we did not want to give up, despite the lack of skills due to that passion. Unfortunately, and it's something I never thought I would agree with, some people just can't progress past a certain point based on their physical and mental abilities. There is much more than 1 event, or even a handful here, and many instructors, crew, DM's have all been involved and giving everything they can to fuel a passion, hoping skills would advance.
 
DRIS may be responding to the claim that they will only provide 'minimal help' to divers. They also describe that the ladder is just a small part of their concern with this diver. Clearly DRIS imposing a 60' depth limit on this diver would not come from concerns about them climbing the ladder.

I know nothing more than is on the board. But reread DRIS's message.
I echo what MichaelMc said. DRIS and his staff have expressed an immense amount of patience and eloquence I’m both their public and private handling of this issue.
 
I have seen videos of her in the water.

I didn't think you had any first hand knowledge

And it doesn’t matter what DRIS has done for her. A public lashing is not an appropriate or professional response of handling conflict.

It doesn't? It most certainly DOES matter! They have patiently bent over backwards for her for YEARS. In the end she threw them under the bus. They had no choice based upon what she said about them and how that lead others to pile on and mischaracterize them. Their responses were measured and professional. I've seen no evidence of a "public lashing" other than responses to what she started.
 
Then we disagree of constitutes appropriate behavior in a public forum. Which is absolutely fine. :)
 
Then we disagree of constitutes appropriate behavior in a public forum.
@Laminappropria: First, welcome to the board!

'Appropriate behavior' is relative to the forum that one is posting in. So, if posted in 'Basics', this thread would be in the backroom for review. However, this was posted (by the OP) in 'Technical Diving'. Appropriate behavior here is pretty raw and for good reason.

Some of us know @Marie13 personally and know a lot of her backstories. Others are just giving their views about what was posted. All fair.
 
@Laminappropria: First, welcome to the board!

'Appropriate behavior' is relative to the forum that one is posting in. So, if posted in 'Basics', this thread would be in the backroom for review. However, this was posted (by the OP) in 'Technical Diving'. Appropriate behavior here is pretty raw and for good reason.

Some of us know @Marie13 personally and know a lot of her backstories. Others are just giving their views about what was posted. All fair.

thank you for the welcome @lowviz ! I hear you, with tech diving harsh truths are often necessary. I have been on both ends, giving and receiving. I still don’t think saying “I don’t want to bash this person” and then spending three paragraphs doing just that in a public forum is necessary. I would have been devastated if my tech instructor did that during times when I was struggling. It’s completely up to them whether they want to continue working with any given student for ANY reason. And likewise everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Personally I try to recognize the boundary between harsh but necessary truths and cruelty and stay on the former side of it.
 
thank you for the welcome @lowviz ! I hear you, with tech diving harsh truths are often necessary. I have been on both ends, giving and receiving. I still don’t think saying “I don’t want to bash this person” and then spending three paragraphs doing just that in a public forum is necessary. I would have been devastated if my tech instructor did that during times when I was struggling. It’s completely up to them whether they want to continue working with any given student for ANY reason. And likewise everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Personally I try to recognize the boundary between harsh but necessary truths and cruelty and stay on the former side of it.

I disagree with you and do agree with the several other people who have disagreed with you.

She recounted a number of characterizations of the boat she was on that came across as a very negative picture of how that boat works. She made it sound like how they dealt with her is how they deal with everyone, all the time - even people that are new to them.

@Dive Right In Scuba rebutted those characterizations and, I think, gave a very fair and reasonable explanation for how she was treated. I'm not sure why you think that it's inappropriate or unprofessional for anyone (business owner, dive pro, or private individual) to rebutt wrong or misleading claims made about them. I.e. give their own side of the story for people to read and draw their own conclusions. And I'm not sure how Mike could have given his rebuttal in any way that was less bashing or more professional.
 
I have seen videos of her in the water.

And it doesn’t matter what DRIS has done for her. A public lashing is not an appropriate or professional response of handling conflict.
Why is it that average joe can say and infer what ever they want against any company and not expect to be challenged or countered in any way . Ok maybe they could have written a little more diplomatically but what i read and by looking at the likes his post received there a lot of members who are exasperated by the OPs regular inept and socially inappropriate responses to those that are actually trying to help - if you run your own business youll know how maddening that is to bend over backwards to help and get nothing back.

Maybe it was unprofessional - maybe in week or so theyll wish they'd written something differant- read beyond the post and see a person who's had enough crap and lashed out - its human but go and sift through OPs posts and see how she responds to others and takes offence over issues. Its really hard work
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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