My Air 2 style alternate

[the sharkman]

Here is a situation concerning a simulated OOA:

My wife and I have only been diving about one year. We both bought Seaquest BC's with the Air 2 style alternates (attached to inflator). We practice OOA situations often, and we discuss it so we keep in mind if one of us grabs frantically at the others reg, we know to calmly switch to our alternate (and yes, I know you shouldn't grab frantically, but we discuss it never-the-less, just in case it happens that way). Overall we like our alternate air sources, but I am considering switching to an octo, here is why...

On our last dive, we thought it would be a good idea to practice an OOA situation before we called it a day and headed in. I signaled to my wife that I needed air, and when I grabbed her primary, she made a mistake and (God only knows why) grabbed my alternate. OK, it was a mistake, and on land it is easy to say what you would and would not do, but underwater is a different story. We both had brain cramps, and started fumbling with our gear (because thinking "what would I do in a real situation" I handed her back her primary, because I would have been " out of air"). Things compounded, and this little dance caused us a little spaz-moment, I sucked some water, and then had to resist the urge to just shoot to the surface (survival instinct was telling me to get to the surface, but of course I didn't).
In the process, my wife sucked water also, then we both sat there coughing into our regs with wide eyes, both thinking "What the...?"

I just think that I would be much more comfortable grabbing my wifes bright yellow octo (which we don't have), rather than taking her primary if I run out of air or have a problem. I feel like I could just grab it if I had to, without interrupting her breathing by using her primary. We practice OOA all the time, and yea, we made a mistake, but so might anyone. I guess what I am getting at (in this long post) is I do like my alternate, but I am considering going to the yellow octo. Either way, I guess it is good to practice so mistakes happen during the practice, rather than when you are really in trouble. It is just strange how we talk about not spazing if there is a problem ,and spazing is almost exactly what we did.

 

[Ber Rabbit]

It's good to hear you practice your OOA situations. Do you often practice underwater or just go through the scenario on the surface. Underwater your gear might not be exactly where you expect it to be, sometimes it has floated into another position and it's hard to simulate that on the surface. It's possible for this to happen with an octo as well as the Air2. Sometimes the octo gets free from it's holder and neither buddy notices the dangling gear. If an OOA situation arises suddenly the octo may not be readily visible (mine tends to go under my tank and between my legs if I don't get it properly seated in the holder) to the OOA person. Now you have the same problem and a bit of fumbling to recover the octo. Gear awareness and management throughout the ENTIRE dive is important. Make sure to occasionally check your gear to make sure nothing is dangling now that wasn't earlier. The "techie" divers have a nice set up with the octo on a "necklace" near their chin. They still hand off their primary hose but they just have to pick up the octo below their chin, that's the system I'm hoping to switch to.

It's always better to goof up during a non-emergency when you have he option of backing off, recovering your reg and trying the exercise again. No matter what gear decision you make, keep up the in water practice.
Ber

 

[ScubaDan]

That's why Air2 should not even be sold. You even practice with it and it still went wrong. During an actual OOA how do you think it would have gone? My guess is not good. That is why I will also be switching over to a necklace backup and handing off my primary.

 

[nickjb]

Good on you for practicing these things.

I'll second scubaDan about handing off the primary (just as you do now) and having a back-up in a necklace.

The necklace back-up is always right there. If you lose you primary for any reason (you donate it, someone grabs, it gets knocked out, etc) then you can immediately switch to the back-up. No hunting for it, no getting it the wrong way round, nothing to un-clip.

 

[Soggy]

With the Air II, one should pass the primary (in your mouth) and grab the secondary (Air II). You ALWAYS know where the Air II is, since it is attached to your power inflator. I find it is an excellent setup. (And yes...I have done emergency ascents with my power inflator stuck between my teeth).

That being said, it does require practice, and I believe the bungied octo is a better setup...I will be switching as soon as I get a new reg.

 

[djhall]

I have a Seaquest Air Source, which is very similar to the Air II. I don't know if this would help or not, but I was told to learn to reach for my alternate/inflator at the shoulder and then run my hand down the hose/unit. That way it could always be easily located by feel alone, no matter where it had drifted, tucked, twisted, floated, etc.

Of course, the bungeed octopus sounds extremely easy to locate and use in a real life situation. But, for those of us who aren't quite ready to make the jump yet... this may work.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Like you, I used to own a combination power inflator/alternative (Zeagle Octo+).

Just for giggles (actually, for practice and to settle a discussion I was having with a diver advocating a long primary/bungeed backup), I tried an ascent from about 120 fsw. The Octo+ breathed like an empty Coke bottle. In addition, it was unnecessarily difficult to vent as I prefer to ascend/descend in a horizontal position.

I purchased an ATX50 for an alternate, mounted it on a bungee and installed a five-foot primary hose. I've since changed the five foot hose to a seven foot to accommodate other aspects of diving.

The nice things about the configuration are (1) while the bungee doesn't interfere with my rig, it does allow me to reach it without even using my hands (dip my head, grab the mouthpiece with my teeth and move it into position); (2) I'm always handing over a regulator that I know is working to the person who needs the air most; and (3) the longer primary hose allows you better control over your buoyancy as you are not stuck together. This is particularly important if you need to swim some distance (for example, back to an upline) before ascending.

This configuration is not my idea. It is part of a diving style called DIR that is advocated by an entity call GUE. See the equipment configuration section at www.gue.com for more details.

 

[pendive]

I hesitate to respond to this type of thread for fear of getting yelled at. I've read the initial post twice and donot see any reason why any other style of octo - Bungie, AIR II, etc - would have made a difference. Perfect practice makes perfect - except when you have a brain fart. Changing a piece of equipment (in this scenerio) would not necessarily have resolved the issue. And some of the comments made were more in support of an AIR II style than a standard octo even though the poster meant the opposite. I've used and trained divers since the AIR II came on the market. It is by far a better concept for most recreational divers then a standard octo style, in most cases. And personally, tying something around my neck that does not have a quick release is not something I would ever allow. And BTW, that is not a new concept - in the mid to late 60's both US Divers and Scubapro (amongst others) used a snap on rubber 2nd stage holder that drapped around your neck.
Being familiar with your equipment is the only solution to solving emergencies, and as shown in the original post, its still doesn't always solve all the problems.

 

[jamiei]

I agree with you completely. Most times, a person will grap your primary reg from your mouth if they find themselves out of air. The air2, just like an noose around the neck is right there for you to take. You can't blame an air2 for someone panicking... Most instructors will back me up on this... a person thats out of air sees you breathing on your primary and thats what they will be breathing on very soon, not looking for a bright yellow octo. It's easy to locate the base of the inflator hose of the air2 and it doesn't seem like it would be as easy to find the hose for the noose without going back to the 1st stage and following the hose. I know some will say they can reach down and grab it with their mouth. In an emergency, those things tend to be hard to grab and octo holders oftentimes don't do their job. I know my air2 can't go too far, but those seven foot hoses aren't exactly a short leash to be controlling the dog with.

That should draw some heat off of you pendive... just kidding. Either way works and they really serve the same purpose. People say the air2 is junk, but mine works just fine. I'll have a r380 soon to go along with my air2 and s600 anyway, but I'm not sure if I'll have it around my neck or not. Maybe in my pocket so I know where its at.

 

[Bob]

There was a discussion on this board about a year or so ago on the merits/safety of the AIR II. That discussion caused me to rethink my own OOA procedures AND equiptment setup. As a result, I went to a five foot primary hose, and yes, I loop it around my neck. It's comfortable and works well. My primary becomes my octo in an OOA suitation and I go on my secondary (octo) How good does this setup work? Last summer a diver was in a OOA and his buddy was fumbling to find his octo to give to the guy, meanwhile the OOA dude was getting ready to bolt. I saw what was going on and was moving toward them as all this was happening. Anyhow, I got there with my primary in hand and handed it to the guy. Worked like a charm. I personally feel the AIR II is dangerous, not because of a design flaw, but because of it's complexity of operatation in stressful suitations Small "occurrences" underwater tend to compound and spiral out of control in a hurry, especially if the divers have never been in an OOA suitation. I think the sharkman's post demonstrates this line of thought. Their OOA suitation was only simulated and look what happened. I'm glad to see they are practicing and discussing emergency procedures. I'm not being critical or judgemental of anyone, but in a true emergency suitation, the simpler the better.
If I was depending on an AIR II, I'd be doing some serious
equiptment evaluation. :tree: Bob