Murder?!?!
- Thread starter art-shark
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art-shark:
Nope. Unless you're discussing crows, murder is the unlawful killing of a human being.
art-shark,
Everyone so far has been pretty easy on you, in my opinion.
I don't think it's cool to come on a spearfishing section and lead off questioning/stating "murder?!?!" and "not the biggest fan of spearing... and "shooting fish in a barrel" even though you later exempt eco minded spearos and deny the cliche'.
I wish rookie H & L's would not kill tiny fish off the seawall near my boat. They discard baited hooks and tackle along with garbage and sea birds and sometimes dogs bite on them, but I certainly wouldn't get on a fishing forum and question it or rant about it. When I'm around and they hit my boat with sinkers and snag my dock lines I express my discontent.
I doubt your incident was due to a moray shadowing a fish, although it can happen and does often enough with fish, legal or otherwise. I've had many doubles and triples, usually of like species and most commonly in cold water.
Your disapproval of the sport is short sighted and aimed at the wrong readers.
You asked for opinions...
Chad
Last edited:
fl-diver
Contributor
Please refer to the link at the beginning of this forum.
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/underwater-hunting/61428-special-rules-hunting-forum.html
You obviously have problems with spearfishing so please read the above link and send your "Murder" post in for screening.
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/underwater-hunting/61428-special-rules-hunting-forum.html
You obviously have problems with spearfishing so please read the above link and send your "Murder" post in for screening.
Art-shark -
I am not sure when this planet's oceans became a barrel?? I do not currently spear, but am very interested in learning and will be soon enough. HOWEVER, I have to agree with Chad's comments whole-heartedly. I have been on the boat with those fishing H&L (myself included), and I have been in the water with spearos...I personally have seen way more collateral damage resulting from H&L, and more specifically the so-called "catch & release" method, which BTW, if not done right is more often than not murder (your term, not mine), in itself. Art-shark, do you pop the air out of the bladder when you release your catch? I certainly hope so. I took my son on a deep-sea offshore fishing trip recently, and I was quite disgusted at how many people were tossing their undersized fish back...only to have them die floating at the surface...not my definition of "catch & release" at all if the fish does not survive after the release. A spearo makes the decision to shoot or not to shoot an individual fish in front of him/her responsibly.
Art-shark, if you are a diver, and I can only assume that you are since you are on this board, then I am quite sure you have seen the same trash that I have seen on the sea floor that is quite obviously a by-product of H&L fishing boats. IMO, spearos are respecting the environment & eco system much more so than any catch & release fishing I have ever seen. Spearing is "selective fishing" as opposed to just yanking out of the water anything & everything that will bite your line...which BTW goes way beyond just "fish"...do you know how many sea turtles I have seen get hooked going after a tasty morsel?? More than a few. I have yet to see a spearo accidentally spear a turtle.
Yes, there are certainly a few idiots out there who are irresponsible and have no business being in the water period, let alone with a gun/spear...but on that note, there are those that should not be driving a motor vehicle (dui's), there are those that should not be hunting in the woods(chaney), and there are those that should not speak in an accusatory tone to others on a topic of which their knowledge is limited.
A person that will shoot a shark or any other creature for fun, speaks of that particular person's moral character...and just because that person descends with a gun, you are going to cry murder at the spearfishing community as a whole? C'mon now.
I am not sure when this planet's oceans became a barrel?? I do not currently spear, but am very interested in learning and will be soon enough. HOWEVER, I have to agree with Chad's comments whole-heartedly. I have been on the boat with those fishing H&L (myself included), and I have been in the water with spearos...I personally have seen way more collateral damage resulting from H&L, and more specifically the so-called "catch & release" method, which BTW, if not done right is more often than not murder (your term, not mine), in itself. Art-shark, do you pop the air out of the bladder when you release your catch? I certainly hope so. I took my son on a deep-sea offshore fishing trip recently, and I was quite disgusted at how many people were tossing their undersized fish back...only to have them die floating at the surface...not my definition of "catch & release" at all if the fish does not survive after the release. A spearo makes the decision to shoot or not to shoot an individual fish in front of him/her responsibly.
Art-shark, if you are a diver, and I can only assume that you are since you are on this board, then I am quite sure you have seen the same trash that I have seen on the sea floor that is quite obviously a by-product of H&L fishing boats. IMO, spearos are respecting the environment & eco system much more so than any catch & release fishing I have ever seen. Spearing is "selective fishing" as opposed to just yanking out of the water anything & everything that will bite your line...which BTW goes way beyond just "fish"...do you know how many sea turtles I have seen get hooked going after a tasty morsel?? More than a few. I have yet to see a spearo accidentally spear a turtle.
Yes, there are certainly a few idiots out there who are irresponsible and have no business being in the water period, let alone with a gun/spear...but on that note, there are those that should not be driving a motor vehicle (dui's), there are those that should not be hunting in the woods(chaney), and there are those that should not speak in an accusatory tone to others on a topic of which their knowledge is limited.
A person that will shoot a shark or any other creature for fun, speaks of that particular person's moral character...and just because that person descends with a gun, you are going to cry murder at the spearfishing community as a whole? C'mon now.
Ok im gona jump on the defensive straight away(surprise surprise)...
The title "murder?!?!" was probably over the top and misleading, i was mainly asking if this was an accidental killing or not, and wanted to see if its normal or not. i have no knowledge or experience with spearing. i wanted to see what other people had to say about it if they were shocked or didnt think much of it.
Tattat said something that gave me a lot to think about and that was...
"A spearo makes the decision to shoot or not to shoot an individual fish in front of him/her responsibly."
i admit this will sound very shallow and show that i have no idea about spearing or what goes on... i always pictured it like this, if u see a fish you just go for it and shoot at it... take what you can attitude. but now i can see i was way off.
and also someone else mentioned that like in any sport, or activity there are always a few idiots that do something to harm the otherwise clean reputation.
also with the H&L fish i never really thought about that either, i have come across plenty of cut of lines etc... (i will go to that forum and give them a mouth full, just kidding) but point taken.
I believe you guys have changed my initial perception on spear fishing...
reading your comments you see that is nothing like i imagined it.
I see its a lot more harmless then i thought, my eyes have been opened.
lastly sorry to anyone if this hit a sore spot...
The title "murder?!?!" was probably over the top and misleading, i was mainly asking if this was an accidental killing or not, and wanted to see if its normal or not. i have no knowledge or experience with spearing. i wanted to see what other people had to say about it if they were shocked or didnt think much of it.
Tattat said something that gave me a lot to think about and that was...
"A spearo makes the decision to shoot or not to shoot an individual fish in front of him/her responsibly."
i admit this will sound very shallow and show that i have no idea about spearing or what goes on... i always pictured it like this, if u see a fish you just go for it and shoot at it... take what you can attitude. but now i can see i was way off.
and also someone else mentioned that like in any sport, or activity there are always a few idiots that do something to harm the otherwise clean reputation.
also with the H&L fish i never really thought about that either, i have come across plenty of cut of lines etc... (i will go to that forum and give them a mouth full, just kidding) but point taken.
I believe you guys have changed my initial perception on spear fishing...
reading your comments you see that is nothing like i imagined it.
I see its a lot more harmless then i thought, my eyes have been opened.
lastly sorry to anyone if this hit a sore spot...
Sailor612
Registered
I consider spearing to be the most conservationally minded fishing activites. We pop down, pick out the species and size we want, and we are done!!! THere is no by-catch; no "catch and release" to only get eaten by sharks, dolphins, barracuda, etc before the release can make it back to the bottom.....
The benefit of spearing is....we go down, pick the biggest/baddest fish that we want out of the group, and shoot it. We don't put stress on juvenille fish by pulling them up, just to release them to certain death before they make it home, nor do we shoot species that we don't want or that are out of season!
We don't leave 100' of fishing line floating in the water because we had to cut it after it got snagged on the reef/wreck.....we dont' leave hooks in fish that have to eventaully rust out....
Both recreational AND commerical spearing is MUCH more conservationally minded than ANY recreational AND commerical fishing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now, like always, there are some people who should not be allowed to participate in the sport! But until someone says something individually to them, they are going to continue to give spearing a bad rep...those people can change though, its just a matter of correcting their issues through education!!!!!
The benefit of spearing is....we go down, pick the biggest/baddest fish that we want out of the group, and shoot it. We don't put stress on juvenille fish by pulling them up, just to release them to certain death before they make it home, nor do we shoot species that we don't want or that are out of season!
We don't leave 100' of fishing line floating in the water because we had to cut it after it got snagged on the reef/wreck.....we dont' leave hooks in fish that have to eventaully rust out....
Both recreational AND commerical spearing is MUCH more conservationally minded than ANY recreational AND commerical fishing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now, like always, there are some people who should not be allowed to participate in the sport! But until someone says something individually to them, they are going to continue to give spearing a bad rep...those people can change though, its just a matter of correcting their issues through education!!!!!
100days-a-year
Contributor
Art Shark,I'd suggest you find some local spearfishers to dive with and interact with them.You will most likely find them to be better divers,more aware of environmental impacts and more active in intelligient fish conservation work than most other divers.
Art-shark -
No worries...yes, you came on strong, but I think you have received a little education on the subject in the process and appear to be looking at both sides of the picture with open eyes.
I think Sailor612 elaborated very well also with respect to the harm & stress caused to juveniles with H&L, which is not a factor whatsoever when spearing. Another point to make, re your initial thoughts on the "take what you can" mentality of spearing...spearfishermen are held to essentially the same fishing regulations as H&L fishermen...must be legal size, must be in season, must not exceed the legal limits, etc. Any spearfisher I have been in the water with will NOT shoot at something that looks too small, is an illegal species to catch, or take more than the legal daily limit. If/when FWC checks your catch, the same consequences apply.
Further, I totally agree with 100days-a-year suggestion to get out and dive with some spearfishers. I am sure you will find that they are much more eco-friendly than what you would have thought.
No worries...yes, you came on strong, but I think you have received a little education on the subject in the process and appear to be looking at both sides of the picture with open eyes.
I think Sailor612 elaborated very well also with respect to the harm & stress caused to juveniles with H&L, which is not a factor whatsoever when spearing. Another point to make, re your initial thoughts on the "take what you can" mentality of spearing...spearfishermen are held to essentially the same fishing regulations as H&L fishermen...must be legal size, must be in season, must not exceed the legal limits, etc. Any spearfisher I have been in the water with will NOT shoot at something that looks too small, is an illegal species to catch, or take more than the legal daily limit. If/when FWC checks your catch, the same consequences apply.
Further, I totally agree with 100days-a-year suggestion to get out and dive with some spearfishers. I am sure you will find that they are much more eco-friendly than what you would have thought.
motulracing
Registered
agree with u art-shark...
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