Mr. Kim Lost In Oregon Wilderness

[Al Mialkovsky]

Condsidering the area, a cell phone may not have even had service. They become pretty useless when you aren't in range

From the highest mountain in there you won't get a single bar.

It seems as though the park service or game warden would put something up that said "dangerous...road closed".

signs are all over the place leading up to this area but the ones where there is snow, is under it.

One of the key points made in the book Deep Survival is that we, as a society, in general, have become somewhat "over domesticated" in a way and no longer have an ability to read our environment because we live in a culture where it is so safe and people are losing many instictive reactions and inate abilities.

That's the main point right there. This young man lived in San Francisco and worked in a cubicle. I'm sure they did hikes along gorgeous trails in Golden Gate Park or maybe even around Portland but, this ain't city around here.

Those of us around here, who aren't city dwellers, carry all sorts of emergency gear in every vehicle. You slide off a road and all signs of going off the road are gone in a few minutes. It's the wilderness up in those mountains.

I heard on television someone ask the question about why the tire smoke was not visible form the air?

When there is a lot of moisture in the air smoke lays low. It may not get close to the tops of the trees. When there is considerable cloud cover there is little to see to begin with. The flight crews in Medford were grounded yesterday until after Mr Kim was discovered by flight crews out of Grants Pass.

I hope those people on TV weren't questioning the efforts our local people put out. They worked hard and risked their lives. Something else city dwellers need to consider before they venture out, not only are they putting their lives and their family lives at extreme risk, they are also risking those who are good hearted enough to go out to look for them.

The Kims missed an exit to highway 42 to get over to the coast. Instead of doubling back they took a road that hasn't been driven on for months already.

 

[Cacia]

No...the coverage has been good, nobody being critical of anyone.

Interesting about humidity and the smoke, makes sense.

 

[Midnight Star]

Yes, in this day and age, it is amazing that the major service provider's cell phone signal used to be faded even in the Big Ten University Campus town in U.S.

Also, it wasn't until recently that skiiers and snowboarders started carrying a personal locater, just in case they were caught in a slide. The cause of death in most causes was suffocation, due the lengthly process of trying to locate them. Now, with locators, they can find and remove them before the suffocate, or suffer from hyperthermia.

I think the best thing they can do in any instance, is learn from the mistakes of others. See what's causing the most fatalities in a given instance, and then plan around that. That's not to say something else won't crop up along the way, but it'll take care of the "common" causes.

If they had different survival courses here in kentucky, much like learning to scuba dive, i'd definately sign up ... in that context, it'd be fun and educational to see how well I could think through a lot of adverse conditions; see where my process weaknesses are, understand how they came about, then fix em'.

-----

Mike.

 

[Hoosier]

Yes. My point is the the cell phone isn't a magic. Depending on the provider, coverage, and location, it is too common completely to lose the signal.

You're right. That is another reason why I bring my personal two way radio for the ski trip. The cell phone is useless on the slope based on my experience.

 

[Kayla]

I hope those people on TV weren't questioning the efforts our local people put out. They worked hard and risked their lives. Something else city dwellers need to consider before they venture out, not only are they putting their lives and their family lives at extreme risk, they are also risking those who are good hearted enough to go out to look for them.

This is the part that just gets me. We go out and put our lives on the line, and then when its not fast enough, or we didnt take the dangerous option in hopes of it going well, its our fault. We hear it a LOT. I tell my guys all the time "Victims have bad days, rescuer's don't." Its that simple. When it comes down to it, Im not going to put their lives on the line.

The news coverage on this case has been excellent, I've been very impressed so far. Everyone is VERY appreciative.

 

[mdb]

From the highest mountain in there you won't get a single bar.

signs are all over the place leading up to this area but the ones where there is snow, is under it.



That's the main point right there. This young man lived in San Francisco and worked in a cubicle. I'm sure they did hikes along gorgeous trails in Golden Gate Park or maybe even around Portland but, this ain't city around here.

Those of us around here, who aren't city dwellers, carry all sorts of emergency gear in every vehicle. You slide off a road and all signs of going off the road are gone in a few minutes. It's the wilderness up in those mountains.



When there is a lot of moisture in the air smoke lays low. It may not get close to the tops of the trees. When there is considerable cloud cover there is little to see to begin with. The flight crews in Medford were grounded yesterday until after Mr Kim was discovered by flight crews out of Grants Pass.

I hope those people on TV weren't questioning the efforts our local people put out. They worked hard and risked their lives. Something else city dwellers need to consider before they venture out, not only are they putting their lives and their family lives at extreme risk, they are also risking those who are good hearted enough to go out to look for them.

The Kims missed an exit to highway 42 to get over to the coast. Instead of doubling back they took a road that hasn't been driven on for months already.

Al: Your posts, from a locals perspective, have been very informative. I'm been on that same road a few times, in the summer, coming up from California and cutting over to Grant's Pass. It was very hard for me to imagine someone taking that road late at night, in the winter. Hopefully, someone will learn something from this unfortunate incident.

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

Hopefully, someone will learn something from this unfortunate incident.

That's a great thought but you know how it works. Hopefully the next dead drunk teen will cause others to learn from that, but......

just a cynic

 

[ba_hiker]

nine days is a long time to "wait".

I wonder if he became lost.

Well he was on a road that was closed or at least unplowed in the winter. He left his car and didn't now where he was going, he just hoped to find someone.

I think he was lost when he started...

 

[Jamdiver]

This is such a horrible tragedy.
I have fond memories of watching James Kim in the late 90's on the now defunct Tech Tv.

He truly seemed to be and was a stand up guy.
Condolences to his loved ones .

 

[Bill51]

Actually it was because of their cell phone that they finally drilled down a general area they were in even though there was no cell coverage in their specific location. It appears after they turned off the main road part of a text message that was in queue for them was sent to their phone and that left a ping trail to a specific direction from a specific tower that showed which road they were headed on.

As a Cnet member I was wondering if this trip had been rescheduled recently and they may have felt pressured to get home and back on schedule. Mr. Kim’s boss took a sudden leave 2 or 3 weeks ago because of the sudden death of his mother and Kim had to step in to run a few things in his boss’s absence. One thing I find rather odd is that Kim was called the “gadget man” at Cnet many times yet he didn’t appear to have a GPS with him that would have alerted him to his wrong turn, to how far he really was from civilization, or how to get back to his car.

As for survival essentials in winter mountain terrain besides the obvious of having warm clothes and boots capable of keeping you warm for at least several hours at a stretch, I’ve never had an unsuccessful mountain rescue if the victim had a space blanket or 2, a 120 hour survival candle, peanut butter, and a metal can, pan, or cup with them. Having spent years trying to find people from the air as a search and rescue pilot I always carry one gold and one silver space blanket in my flight bag or survival kit. It can be difficult to spot a silver blanket on snow or a gold one in trees, but by using the two together you can make a signal that the spotter should be able to see. With a small hose and some basic tools the gasoline and oil from the engine could have been used more effectively burned separately or to burn even damp wood rather than using it to run the engine heater for heat and melting snow for water.

It’s so true that very few people today are equipped mentally or with experience to actually survive outside of their urban islands.