'This is 911. What is your emergency?' How prepared are you for a medical emergency?

[Kmart4321]

KMart and Ray,

This reminds me of something Reggie Ross taught me during my ITC. "Look at your student carefully. If they don't look like a diver, figure out why!" and then he always kept talking about the 'Spidey Sense' you needed to develop as an instructor. When I saw Fred and Mary, they just didn't look like normal tourists. They were obviously stressing and him being on the ground at that angle was all wrong. While I had suspicions that this was a stroke, I KNEW that they needed medical help beyond my meager abilities.

In Florida it cost you nothing, zero and nada for an ambulance to arrive at your door and assess you. They only get to charge if they administer anything other than advice and/or transport you to the nearest hospital. If in doubt, call it in. Denial is not just another river in Egypt, but rather an epidemic here in the USA. Mind you, Mary was not in denial, I don't think. But this event blind sided her and she was confused as I've ever seen. Confusion and denial are pretty debilitating. Pick a course of action and follow it through.

As for being the 'ray of hope', I think a lot of first responders miss how important that is. I remember as a kid in Boy Scouts a Patrol Leader telling his buddy not to freak out about the cut on his finger, because if he goes into shock he might very well die. It was frickin' hilarious to see this poor kid's face go white with real fear at that point. The Patrol Leader was teased incessantly about his faux pax as long as he was a part of Troop 25. Be a part of the solution and never add to the problem.

I have a 40 lb back pack stuffed with medications, all kinds of metal and plastic that I can shove into natural or man made orifices, a cardiac monitor that does 12 leads, measures all kinds of vital signs and delivers therapeutic electricity in a number of different ways.

That being said; if I forget to bring calm with me into a scene I am no help to anyone.

Be the pillar. You were Doc[emoji106]

 

[randy88k5]

Great job Pete. I had a similar incident about a year ago. It was a bad car accident, but as far as I know, everyone survived. I posted about it in the MOF/NMOF thread.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/su...slackers-hijackers-unbent-40.html#post7040164

I too was running "what if..."'s through my head all day. I PM'd BowlOfPetunias like Jenny suggested, and she had a lot of good advice.

Like Ray said, something is better than nothing. Even if nothing could be done and the person passes, at least you were there for them, and they didn't die alone.

 

[Akimbo]

The real take-home message here isn't the symptoms of stroke. It's the prompt and proper reaction to a possible medical emergency…

Exactly. We can debate the optimum “proper reaction” indefinitely but one thing that is certain: Frantic activity nearing panic ranges from counterproductive to dangerous. Call for help and get out of the way if that’s the best you can do.

BTW, well done NetDoc.

 

[sheeper]

Fact is without a workup by an MD, we can only "presume" a stroke. Now as a paramedic (and federal agent), my presumption is pretty good. That comes from training and (yes) experience (lots).
The single most important things citizens can do is to have a desire to help others. Too many people don't...too many are scared.
The next most important thing to do is get trained. Go to the Red Cross for first aid and CPR, go take a CERT class (look to your local EOC for info). DO SOMETHING. I love teaching citizens how to be prepared and how to help. Almost as much fun as diving.

And I have had the pleasure of teaching many of the responders down there in the Keys!

 

[tomfcrist]

Net doc,

You did what you thought was appropriate at the time. Never second guess yourself in the moment...that is what after action reports, debrief sand lessons learned are for. You did good.

I had a similar situation happen on summerland years ago, but it was a heart attack victim that lost control of his vehicle and plowed into the jersey barriers at the base of miles channel bridge. 20 people standing around shell shocked and 2 of us tried to help the guy...O2, cpr, trauma care etc on the side of the road. The guy didn't make it. I beat myself up for weeks thinking that if I had just had an AED in the truck all would have been different...The reality is that it may have done no good at all. Hindsight is 20/20, but all you can do in the moment is everything you think is appropriate to the situation.
Once again, you did good.

 

[Remy B.]

All this thread reminds me of my EFR courses I had taken in the past and those small tests to the victims are the most accurate ones, specially the one from the arms, some people can lose their hearing, it is not common but it can happen, you can direct them with signs and help him to bring his arms up, if he let one arm drop or can't even hold it up, the oppocite side of the brain of that arm with lack of motris action is the one that suffered the damage, this is somewhat important as you can check if the victim did not hit his head with something on that side of the head.

Thanks for sharing, I need to take my EFR course this year again, to embed it in the head and create muscle/reaction memory.

You did great NetDoc, in our training we have the stabilize victim on safe ground, call emergency number, as you figure out very quickly something is wrong with the victim after you had training, as Kevin pointed out the sooner the victim is transported to a medical facility the better.

 

[gcarter]

Good timing on this for me, I have not actually done a first aid course of any sort for ~ 30 years but I am about to embark on my EFR & Rescue training. It has always niggled at the back of the mind that I need to do this, and you have now reinforced that for me. One never knows, and being prepared is the first step.

+1 on stepping up for this guy.

 

[Kmart4321]

KMart and Ray,

This reminds me of something Reggie Ross taught me during my ITC. "Look at your student carefully. If they don't look like a diver, figure out why!" and then he always kept talking about the 'Spidey Sense' you needed to develop as an instructor. When I saw Fred and Mary, they just didn't look like normal tourists. They were obviously stressing and him being on the ground at that angle was all wrong. While I had suspicions that this was a stroke, I KNEW that they needed medical help beyond my meager abilities.

In Florida it cost you nothing, zero and nada for an ambulance to arrive at your door and assess you. They only get to charge if they administer anything other than advice and/or transport you to the nearest hospital. If in doubt, call it in. Denial is not just another river in Egypt, but rather an epidemic here in the USA. Mind you, Mary was not in denial, I don't think. But this event blind sided her and she was confused as I've ever seen. Confusion and denial are pretty debilitating. Pick a course of action and follow it through.

As for being the 'ray of hope', I think a lot of first responders miss how important that is. I remember as a kid in Boy Scouts a Patrol Leader telling his buddy not to freak out about the cut on his finger, because if he goes into shock he might very well die. It was frickin' hilarious to see this poor kid's face go white with real fear at that point. The Patrol Leader was teased incessantly about his faux pax as long as he was a part of Troop 25. Be a part of the solution and never add to the problem.

That Spidey Sense has helped me out more than once.... Something is not right here and I will find out what it is.... Trust it, it's there for a reason:idea:

 

[patebon]

Nice thread, very giving enlightenment.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Great post NetDoc!

I have a question for the medical professionals (EMT's, nurses, doctors, etc.).

Obviously calling 911 is the first task. However, is it useful to obtain vitals and basic information (AVPU, etc.)? As the change in vitals can be important? Or does EMS typically not find value in that?