Mr. C Boat Schedule?

[Leejnd]

Marc, I was carefully non-specific. And I believe Pat has talked directly to several of the most...um..."vocal", and smoothed things over. But to be honest, I do tend to think that picking on people's spelling errors is kind of a low blow. And Pat certainly wasn't the only person with spelling errors in this thread. In any case, I have to agree with Dracunos - the internet can be a strange place, and message boards in particular can be rife with miscommunications, misinterpretations, and lost non-verbal cues - especially for people not used to them. Kudos to Pat for being willing to wade in here!

I totally agree with you about poor customer service. I've had my share of bad service experiences, and I'll be the one crowing the loudest when it happens to me. So I get it.

Moving on - I'm planning on going out on Mr. C on Nov. 21, the day AFTER I finish my Fundies class, and I'm in search of a GUE-trained dive buddy for that day, as my partner in this class is busy. I need someone willing to put up with a brand-new Fundies graduate who is all full of herself and dying to try out the skills on "regular" dives. Anyone want to take me up on that?

I'm also still working out the details about Dec. 19 and will post something later.

Thanks everyone for your willingness to be open-minded and forgiving. That's what a *community* is all about.

 

[Blackwood]

I do tend to think that picking on people's spelling errors is kind of a low blow.

But it's easy, and I'm lazy

 

[on_two_wheels]

A couple people have posted snarky little comments in this thread for no apparent reason - they didn't have a complaint with the boat, they have no connection with this boat. What's bothering me is that it seems as if they posted for the sole purpose of expressing a bit of snide joy over watching someone else's misfortune. I'm disappointed to see that.

If you're referring to my posts, I absolutely have a connection...we're both involved in diving. They would love to have my money and I want to spend it diving. My posts were absolutely UNBIASED and not unreasonable. I think if you ask Pat about our PMs you'll find I've merely commented all along as a potential customer. I have no interest in seeing a dive op lose money which is why I have made the suggestions I have...privately. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt by being open to diving Mr C pending decent unbiased reviews.


because yes, they had the right to keep my $250. Exactly. It's a business, not personal. You weren't a "friend of the boat."



Pat goes out on every trip - and how many SoCal boats do you know where the owner is there for every trip? If you really want to know, I'll post a plug for one of the few I know....The Magician.
I

Pat, good luck with everything. Keep us posted on changes, trips, specials, etc. There's a forum here for you to post those types of things, too. You can reach a lot of people through this media and often quality divers that will make the captain's life easy.

 

[Codyjp]

Marc, I was carefully non-specific. And I believe Pat has talked directly to several of the most...um..."vocal", and smoothed things over. But to be honest, I do tend to think that picking on people's spelling errors is kind of a low blow. And Pat certainly wasn't the only person with spelling errors in this thread. In any case, I have to agree with Dracunos - the internet can be a strange place, and message boards in particular can be rife with miscommunications, misinterpretations, and lost non-verbal cues - especially for people not used to them. Kudos to Pat for being willing to wade in here!

I totally agree with you about poor customer service. I've had my share of bad service experiences, and I'll be the one crowing the loudest when it happens to me. So I get it.

Moving on - I'm planning on going out on Mr. C on Nov. 21, the day AFTER I finish my Fundies class, and I'm in search of a GUE-trained dive buddy for that day, as my partner in this class is busy. I need someone willing to put up with a brand-new Fundies graduate who is all full of herself and dying to try out the skills on "regular" dives. Anyone want to take me up on that?

I'm also still working out the details about Dec. 19 and will post something later.

Thanks everyone for your willingness to be open-minded and forgiving. That's what a *community* is all about.

Which is why clear, concise, timely and accurate communications are required to avoid any mis communications to the audience and customer base.

 

[Leejnd]

If you're referring to my posts, I absolutely have a connection...we're both involved in diving. They would love to have my money and I want to spend it diving. My posts were absolutely UNBIASED and not unreasonable. I think if you ask Pat about our PMs you'll find I've merely commented all along as a potential customer. I have no interest in seeing a dive op lose money which is why I have made the suggestions I have...privately. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt by being open to diving Mr C pending decent unbiased reviews.

As mentioned earlier, I was carefully non-specific. But if you think I was referring to you...that's just some food for thought, that's all. I'm VERY glad to hear that you and Pat spoke directly, and came to an understanding. Thanks for being willing to give him and the boat a chance, and I hope I get to meet you on there someday. Or on some other boat. I've been on Magician myself, and had a great time.

Exactly. It's a business, not personal. You weren't a "friend of the boat."

My point is that someone shouldn't have to be a "friend of the boat" to be treated with compassion. We're all people - we should act like people. This was, IMO, a pretty boneheaded move on their part. Instead of treating me like a friend (and given how many times we'd been on them, I think they SHOULD have), they treated me like a number. Their website, and their policy, gave them the right to keep my money - I get that. But had they treated me like a friend, or even like a valued customer, and extended some friendly compassion as a member of our local dive community, they would have kept my money (I wasn't even asking for a refund - I was asking to reschedule) AND kept a customer. I would have been extremely grateful. We used to go out on this boat regularly - it's a very convenient boat for us, if a little, shall we say, "sterile" in their approach (they never made any opportunity to get to know us - I don't even know the first names of anyone on that boat). But this incident happened several months ago, and I haven't been on them since.

Please note that I haven't named them. I'm just making a point about the differences in how some business owners choose to do business. I believe in a human approach, myself. And that's definitely something I've been impressed with on Mr. C. They ain't perfect, but they sure are human!

Pat, good luck with everything. Keep us posted on changes, trips, specials, etc. There's a forum here for you to post those types of things, too. You can reach a lot of people through this media and often quality divers that will make the captain's life easy.

Thanks so much for being open-minded and willing to forgive. Yes, I'm talking about you.

 

[on_two_wheels]

My point is that someone shouldn't have to be a "friend of the boat" to be treated with compassion. We're all people - we should act like people. This was, IMO, a pretty boneheaded move on their part. Instead of treating me like a friend (and given how many times we'd been on them, I think they SHOULD have),

This is where I don't understand your way of thinking. They're running a business. If they canceled the trip last minute due to the captain getting sick, you'd want your money back, right? This is twice you've related business with a dive op to friendships. ???

Divers look out for divers and help each other out. If I loan a guy a hose so he can make the third dive, that doesn't make us friends. Just looking out for the guy. If I'm selling something to another diver but he doesn't have the money, I'm not gonna let him pay me later but give him the item. It's business. Sorry...but the business has probably heard every sob story there is and some are real, some are not. It's not up to them to determine which is which.

I realize I don't give politically correct or warm, fuzzy responses. I don't sugar coat them so I should probably clarify, this is purely a discussion about two very different opinions. It shouldn't cause hurt feelings and I certainly would be happy to talk shop next to you on a boat someday if the opportunity presents itself.

 

[Leejnd]

I'm reluctant to respond to this post, since I would like to move past what happened...um...*earlier* in this thread and get back to the joy of diving. But I will go ahead and try to explain my thought process. Like you, I want to clarify that this is not an argument, and not even a disagreement -- just different ways of thinking, and I'd like to try to help you understand mine on this.

This is where I don't understand your way of thinking. They're running a business. If they canceled the trip last minute due to the captain getting sick, you'd want your money back, right? This is twice you've related business with a dive op to friendships. ???

To me, there is a HUGE difference between a company that sells widgets online, and a dive boat operation. Diving is a social sport, and the people that run our dive boats are giving us a very personal, and life-critical, service. We are truly trusting our lives to them. For that reason, I WANT to get to know them on a personal level. I want them to know my name. When they do that roll call, I want them to be looking for my face, not just listening for an anonymous "here".

Now, let's not get hung up on the word "friend". I'm not expecting every dive boat owner, DM, and crewmember to invite me over for dinner and come to my kids' graduations. But I do want them to be friendly, personal, human, and to see me as a person, not as a credit card number.

I'm not saying this cancels out the business relationship. I'm giving them my money, I expect to receive a specific service. I am still their customer. If the trip canceled due to the captain getting sick, of course I would want my money back. I paid for a service, and didn't get it!

Divers look out for divers and help each other out. If I loan a guy a hose so he can make the third dive, that doesn't make us friends. Just looking out for the guy. If I'm selling something to another diver but he doesn't have the money, I'm not gonna let him pay me later but give him the item. It's business.

Again, I think we're getting hung up on the word "friend". There are different types of friends - you CAN be friends with someone with whom you do business -- your corner grocer, the guy who works on your car, the barkeep at your favorite pub. You can know each others' names, and ask about each others' day at work, and be...friendly! I don't want to belabor that issue - I think I've made my point clear. I do believe that getting to know the people you do business with, from either end (customer or seller/service-provider), makes for a better experience. And on a dive boat, I know *I* have a better day when they treat me like a person!

Sorry...but the business has probably heard every sob story there is and some are real, some are not. It's not up to them to determine which is which.

You are right. I'm not disputing this at all. And as I stated earlier, I know full well that they had every right to keep my money and not give me anything back.

What I'm saying is that they had a choice here. They could do what they did - say "sorry, that's our cancellation policy, and you knew that going in." Or they could say "Wow, LeeAnne I'm so sorry to hear about your mother. Hey don't worry about it - we're not full anyway, let's get you back out here in a few weeks when things have settled down. But let's make it on a day when we're not full, so we don't have to deny someone else a spot. That okay?"

What do the two different responses get them? 1) They get to keep $250 of my money for nothing - no service provided. And they lose me as a customer forever. (And a few other people close to me, because even though I haven't publicly mentioned them in here, my closest dive buddies know about this, and they thought it was totally heartless and now they won't go on them either.) Or --- 2) They get to keep $250 of my money, provide the service on another day, and win my everlasting gratitude and loyalty, and probably about $250 MORE of my money at least once a month if not more.

See the diff? THAT'S what I mean about treating a customer as a friend.

I realize I don't give politically correct or warm, fuzzy responses. I don't sugar coat them so I should probably clarify, this is purely a discussion about two very different opinions. It shouldn't cause hurt feelings and I certainly would be happy to talk shop next to you on a boat someday if the opportunity presents itself.

No problem, and I hope that my explanation has helped you to see my perspective, even if it didn't change yours. I'm not asking you to think the way I do...just to understand how *I* think. And to realize that I'm not the only one. Clearly there are businesses that think the way you do - that boat I'm talking about is one of them. And they have every right to operate their business that way. It's just not the type of business style that works for me, so I will spend my money on a boat that considers me MORE than a customer - that considers me a FRIEND, even if they just met me.

 

[on_two_wheels]

I'm reluctant to respond to this post, since I would like to move past what happened...um...*earlier* in this thread and get back to the joy of diving. But I will go ahead and try to explain my thought process. Like you, I want to clarify that this is not an argument, and not even a disagreement -- just different ways of thinking, and I'd like to try to help you understand mine on this.



To me, there is a HUGE difference between a company that sells widgets online, and a dive boat operation. Diving is a social sport, and the people that run our dive boats are giving us a very personal, and life-critical, service. We are truly trusting our lives to them. For that reason, I WANT to get to know them on a personal level. I want them to know my name. When they do that roll call, I want them to be looking for my face, not just listening for an anonymous "here".

Now, let's not get hung up on the word "friend". I'm not expecting every dive boat owner, DM, and crewmember to invite me over for dinner and come to my kids' graduations. But I do want them to be friendly, personal, human, and to see me as a person, not as a credit card number.

I'm not saying this cancels out the business relationship. I'm giving them my money, I expect to receive a specific service. I am still their customer. If the trip canceled due to the captain getting sick, of course I would want my money back. I paid for a service, and didn't get it!



Again, I think we're getting hung up on the word "friend". There are different types of friends - you CAN be friends with someone with whom you do business -- your corner grocer, the guy who works on your car, the barkeep at your favorite pub. You can know each others' names, and ask about each others' day at work, and be...friendly! I don't want to belabor that issue - I think I've made my point clear. I do believe that getting to know the people you do business with, from either end (customer or seller/service-provider), makes for a better experience. And on a dive boat, I know *I* have a better day when they treat me like a person!


You are right. I'm not disputing this at all. And as I stated earlier, I know full well that they had every right to keep my money and not give me anything back.

What I'm saying is that they had a choice here. They could do what they did - say "sorry, that's our cancellation policy, and you knew that going in." Or they could say "Wow, LeeAnne I'm so sorry to hear about your mother. Hey don't worry about it - we're not full anyway, let's get you back out here in a few weeks when things have settled down. But let's make it on a day when we're not full, so we don't have to deny someone else a spot. That okay?"

What do the two different responses get them? 1) They get to keep $250 of my money for nothing - no service provided. And they lose me as a customer forever. (And a few other people close to me, because even though I haven't publicly mentioned them in here, my closest dive buddies know about this, and they thought it was totally heartless and now they won't go on them either.) Or --- 2) They get to keep $250 of my money, provide the service on another day, and win my everlasting gratitude and loyalty, and probably about $250 MORE of my money at least once a month if not more.

See the diff? THAT'S what I mean about treating a customer as a friend.



No problem, and I hope that my explanation has helped you to see my perspective, even if it didn't change yours. I'm not asking you to think the way I do...just to understand how *I* think. And to realize that I'm not the only one. Clearly there are businesses that think the way you do - that boat I'm talking about is one of them. And they have every right to operate their business that way. It's just not the type of business style that works for me, so I will spend my money on a boat that considers me MORE than a customer - that considers me a FRIEND, even if they just met me.

You make some valid points. I guess the biggest difference is I see some as acquaintances and some as friends. The dive op, auto repair man and grocer are acquaintances. The dive buddy I grab a beer with, even on non-diving days, is a friend. HUGE difference between friendly and friend. Example: They probably could have treated you more friendly. They had no reason to treat you as a friend.

Your friend Pat made comments that has alienated customers. He treated potential customers like a faceless being and certainly not friendly. You quickly and passionately defended him. Now you're criticizing another company for doing the same thing, albeit for different reasons. I'm sure that other company has customers that would have done the same thing.

 

[Leejnd]

You make some valid points. I guess the biggest difference is I see some as acquaintances and some as friends. The dive op, auto repair man and grocer are acquaintances. The dive buddy I grab a beer with, even on non-diving days, is a friend. HUGE difference between friendly and friend. Example: They probably could have treated you more friendly. They had no reason to treat you as a friend.

Potayto, potahto. Friend, acquaintance...a bit of hair-splitting, but I do understand your point. I definitely do not want to get into a lengthy discussion of the difference between acquaintances and friends. I think I made it very clear that I understand the difference, and we are in agreement on this. I also think you really do understand the point I was trying to make.

Your friend Pat made comments that has alienated customers. He treated potential customers like a faceless being and certainly not friendly. You quickly and passionately defended him. Now you're criticizing another company for doing the same thing, albeit for different reasons. I'm sure that other company has customers that would have done the same thing.

Gaak - I was trying to avoid getting back into this. Yes, he made mistakes in his entry into this communications medium. He has acknowledged that, taken full responsibility, and apologized - which I find admirable. That was not representative of how he acts *in person*, which is why I'm very glad that he's had personal contact with the people that he upset with his initial posts, so everyone can put that behind them.

I am most certainly NOT criticizing the other dive boat for "doing the same thing, albeit for different reasons". Pat's errors were all about communication, which he has since worked hard to resolve. The other boat made an unfriendly business decision about what to do with my money, that cost them a long-time customer. I feel it was a very bad decision on their part. And they made no effort whatsoever to resolve it. I just want to get that clear - that I am drawing a sharp distinction between these two boats, which is why I will no longer go on THEM, but I will continue to go on Mr. C.

Your logic continues to defy me - but at this point, let's just let it go, can we? Let's go diving!

 

[Leejnd]

All those interested in Mr. C - looks like Ye Olde Dive Shop has confirmed their charter on them for Nov. 14. It's posted up in the Trips and Marketplace sub-forum. Just lettin' y'all know.