More basics...kicks

[tedtim]

If you only use a flutter kick, do you ever look behind you to see if your disturbing the bottom?

Not the only kick I use, but yes.

If you do look and see you're creating a silt cloud, do you DO anything about it or just continue on your merry way?

Yes

This is a pretty good explanation of the different kicks with videos of how to do them right:
http://www.gue.com/classroom/propulsion/index.shtml

Let's not get into another DIR discussion here. Sneaky though.

I have met some other people who have had knee surgery and for which the frog kick puts too much pressure on their knees. It is either the motion itself, or the constant position of keeping the knees bent at 90 degrees. I am one of those that have had major knee surgery. Sure I try to use the frog kick, but the 90 degree position is difficult to hold for a long time, so I will switch when the situation is appropriate.

 

[Spratman]

I read about three bottom plowing the bottom on here, and determined I would work to not be one. I found that nearly all the guys I dive with just mosey along with frog kicks. I find it less tiring to use and do most of my dives with frog kicks.

Yeah, I watched the GUE videos and plan on implementing like the helicopter to manuvuer around in place. Nope, not a DIR guy but they have some useful stuff.

 

[scubajoh44]

Whoever is leading the dive (instructors/DM's) should be aware of the bottom composition and tell students/divers to watch about stirring up. Kick cycles should be discussed prior to dive.

 

[Uncle Pug]

I was practicing the frog kick during my last dive. Trying to be self taught because of this board. (see previous discussion) I have the famous (infamous?) split fins. Should I get non-splits for the frog kick? This is not a troll.

An inefficient frog kick (as well as grossly inefficient helicopter and backward kicks) can be done with split fins. I've been able to do them with every split fin I've tried, some more inefficiently than others.

But to answer your question directly, yes... you should get non-split fins if you want precision control. If you want to swim fast get a scooter.

It is either the motion itself, or the constant position of keeping the knees bent at 90 degrees. I am one of those that have had major knee surgery. Sure I try to use the frog kick, but the 90 degree position is difficult to hold for a long time

tedtim: A correct frog kick does not require the knees to be bent at a 90d angle. Keeping them bent and sculling with ankle motion is sculling and using the legs at somewhat less than 90d is a modified frog kick (both for close manuvering.) With the true frog kick the legs start at, say ~60d and end up being extended out behind you during the glide portion of the kick. I've also had major knee surgeries (plural) and neither the frog kick, modified frog kick nor sculling poses a problem for me at all.

It worked out well for me in spite of the rudeness of the diver, whose name I won't mention so as not to embarrass Uncle Pug.

Rick: I wasn't being rude... I was just giving you clear and unambiguous directions.

 

[SeanQ]

I have met some other people who have had knee surgery and for which the frog kick puts too much pressure on their knees. It is either the motion itself, or the constant position of keeping the knees bent at 90 degrees. I am one of those that have had major knee surgery. Sure I try to use the frog kick, but the 90 degree position is difficult to hold for a long time, so I will switch when the situation is appropriate.

Just out of curiosity, do you or any of the divers who've mentioned having difficulty use ankle weights?

 

[scubajoh44]

Yes, I use ankle weights.

 

[Kagh't]

All this talk about frog kicks needing to be taught, am i the only one who 'discovered' how to kick like this (whilst just idley swimming along) during OW training? Maybe i subconsiously copied my instructor, but hey, not complaining.
Definatly agree though about the frog kick being taught (or at least mentioned) during OW training, it does help.

 

[tedtim]

tedtim: A correct frog kick does not require the knees to be bent at a 90d angle. Keeping them bent and sculling with ankle motion is sculling and using the legs at somewhat less than 90d is a modified frog kick (both for close manuvering.) With the true frog kick the legs start at, say ~60d and end up being extended out behind you during the glide portion of the kick. I've also had major knee surgeries (plural) and neither the frog kick, modified frog kick nor sculling poses a problem for me at all.

That is the way I do it too. The video at the GUE site via the link show otherwise. The legs are not fully extended at any point.

 

[tedtim]

Just out of curiosity, do you or any of the divers who've mentioned having difficulty use ankle weights?

Yes, I use ankle weights with my drysuit. This is not a problem. In my case it is not strength, it is the limitation in the range of motion of my knee.

 

[Uncle Pug]

That is the way I do it too. The video at the GUE site via the link show otherwise. The legs are not fully extended at any point.

The GUE site shows a diver using a high frequency kick with little or no glide portion. The video on 5thd-x website shows a diver doing what I would call a modified frog kick with glide portion... still moving along quite nicely but without significantly straightening the knees.

As for *fully* extending the legs, that is not the goal... if they were fully extended then the fin tips would most likely be pointing downward somewhat and causing drag. The point is that in a modified frog kick the knees are kept bent while in a full frog kick the knee joint moves and the lower legs are extended somewhat to affect more foreward movement and enhance the glide.

Technique aside, the goal is to reduce silting. If one wants to make maximum headway with the least amount of gas used and no silting then a scooter is the way to go. However, IMO most recreational divers would be better served by slowing down and learn to be still... maintaining a fixed position without any finning, hand or foot.

Proper positioning, precise maneuvering, efficient propulsion are all skills to be be learned and honed. Folks just need to know that there is such a thing and that it is desirable.