More basics...kicks

[TSandM]

I don't know what you say to someone who is silting everything up. I know my original dive instructor told me I was traumatizing the anemones . . . but he didn't teach any other kicks. He did want me to stop diving standing up, though

I run into the same situation when I see someone riding badly. Generally, I either don't say anything, unless I know them or know they are novices. Then I'll ask, "Would you like any pointers?" or "May I offer some ideas?" Amazingly enough, many people leap at the chance to get some help and do better, especially if information is offered in a non-threatening and non-judgmental way.

 

[MikeFerrara]

What to say?
It's difficult. If I happen to end up in a conversation with some one I know I saw under water, it's not too hard to bring up in a friendly, helpful way. Most of the time, at places like dive parks, it's hard or impossible to connect the faces you see on the surface with the offending fins you saw in the water. In the water I useually direct the diver to look at their mess although most are busy struggling through their dive and don't notice you unless you make physical contact.

I've had several conversations with instructors who's classes absolutely destroy anyplace they dive but they're rarely interested in hearing it and most have no intention of doing anything different. I did have an interesting conversation with a DM once after noticing that the students she was helping with were having a really hard time. She herself had never learned any other kicks and was, herself strugling with her trim. That talk may have done some one some good but usually it's a wast of time unless...they see you in the water and ASK. That happens.

Technique is one problem but an easy one to correct. A little information and practice and the problem is gone. Attitude is another problem. All divers are told to be kind to coral reefs but right from day one they get the idea that it's ok to abuse any fresh water environment. I once had a wet note conversation with a couple of divers who were kneeling right in the middle of inhabited bluegil nests taking pictures of eachother and they had no idea. What the hell? It isn't a reef right? Who cares? Instructors will plop their classes on their butts or knees any old place they feel like it.

It's not just a minority of divers either. I've come to the comclusion that it just isn't worth diving any place that gets much diving traffic unless you can somehow get there when no one else can. I've had more dives than I care to even count ruined from florida springs to midwest quarries (yes some have great vis if divers behave) and great lakes wrecks. I've even terminated dives with students because it was just too miserable trying to dive in the silt clouds of others. I remember once I started a night dive with a student early and the vis was real nice and lots of fish to watch. When the other night divers caught up with us we were silted out. We changed direction only to get silted out again. I finally thumbed the dive because there was just no way to get away from it other than to go home. We surfaced about the time others were ending their dives because of the bad vis (if they oly knew where it came from). My student pipes up with "Why did all those divers have their fins in the bottom?" I once taught a rescue class at a quarry that at the time had the best vis I'd ever seen there. I thought "boy these guys are in for a treat!". Unfortunately, one of my students promptly destroyed the vis. When we surfaced a short time later she asked me what was wrong with the vis and if there was any place better we could do the class. The rescue class got put on hold while we worked on some other things. I was as gentle as I knew how to be but I think she was still embarrased because she really had no idea.

Unfortunately it's the way diving is taught and it would require a real culture change to fix it. Unless a diver lucks into a good mentor, goes on to become a cave diver, or comes to a board like this where it's discussed from time to time, they won't ever even know there's another way. I think the addition of a few paragraphs (a chapter at most) to open water manuals and an additional line or two in traning standards would change the whole diving world in a rather dramatic way. Unfortiunately those who write them either don't know or don't care. Well, some of them know because I've told them.

 

[Greg D.]

Good information in this thread, I had a buddy bring the frog kick to my attention when I was still green, I wonder if It was cause I was killing the vis

 

[devolution365]

On my last dive (a refresher done in a quarry) the students were unbelievably efficient at stirring everything up and reducing visibility from 25ft to ~3ft. I ended up loosing my buddy in the smoke-screen they were leaving behind. Later, I swam to the front of the line and noticed the instructor frog-kicking. I knew right away why he was doing that, but felt I didn't want to experiment with a new kicking style while trying to find my buddy, maintain neutral bouyancy, keep trim, etc. Instead, I looked behind me and adjusted how far off the bottom I was as needed. If I was swimming fast, I'd go up about 5 feet. If I was pretty much coasting, I'd drop down to get a closer look at the bottom.

If I'm kicking up silt on my next dive, I'd want someone to tell me. If nothing else, on the boat between dives -maybe ask the person how long they've been diving, then ask if they've ever learned different kicking techniques. Those who aren't know-it-all's and are willing to take pointers and perfect their technique will be receptive, "strokes" won't be, but I think it's worth a shot.

It would have been nice to be taught the frog kick in the pool before doing the OW dives. I know that some students are overwhelmed with the basic coursework as it is and wouldn't want additional skills to work on, but others (from what I've seen) could definitely handle it. Perhaps instructors could keep this in mind when/if they give their students "free time" in the pool to practice skills. Show the frog kick to those who have the skills down. (?)

 

[xiSkiGuy]

Well ya know...had I not read about just that here, I’d be merrily, merrily silting along. So yep, I went out and barely skimming the sand looking behind - one flutter and full on silt storm ensued. Experimented a bit finding I had to be 10 or 15 feet over with modified slow flutters to not leave a trail of ineptitude, went back to the computer and studied the kick video hyperlinks thoughtful posters provided (Mahalo).
Have to confess when someone silts up the place, I know better now and am frogging, a bit smug, merrily along.

That is how I figured it out.

The other question is how do you tell your mentor/instructor/frequent dive buddy (all the same person) that they should consider other methods of propulsion?[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[jmps]

I was practicing the frog kick during my last dive. Trying to be self taught because of this board. (see previous discussion) I have the famous (infamous?) split fins. Should I get non-splits for the frog kick? This is not a troll.

 

[ianr33]

Maybe there should be another speciality class for this. PPP (Peak Performance Propulsion)

And if agencies and instructors could make money from this they might take it seriously.After all,if there is not a class for it how can it be important?

 

[Randy43068]

We know the law of primacy, so why not teach the frog right away? It should be the first one taught in OW class.

 

[cyklon_300]

We know the law of primacy, so why not teach the frog right away? It should be the first one taught in OW class.

Why not teach it from the beginning? I've asked some instructors the same question and the response is that the OW students are too task-loaded to handle the additional skill.

Seems like BS to me...if they can learn equalization techniques, mask clearing, quasi-buoyancy and trim, blah blah they could at least be INTRODUCED to a non-silting kick.

Ian's on to something...if you can't get a card for something, it probably ain't gonna be taught.

 

[Santa]

What do you say to a really nice person who swims right along the bottom at a 45-degree angle (feet down), leaving a cloud of destroyed reef behind them?

"Eat lazer death scum" or nothing unless you're both wearing facemasks and radios.