Monkey Diving - DIR ?

[cool_hardware52]

Tobin,
Could you please provide more detail on this revolutionary breakthru in monkey diving.

Where have I claimed it's a revoluntionary breakthrough? We just optomized the rig for a specific set of requirements, simple, low drag, compact, lightweight, enough lift for the job and means to secure a small amount of block weight ballast.

There are some very nice sidemount rigs available today, but it should be evident that Monkey Diving in shallow open water is not the same as wiggling through narrow bedding plane in a cave.

The type of monkey diving described by you is foreign to me. (nothing like the video's)

If it's foreign to you how can you claim it's

It is a foolhardy approach to diving which disregards diver safety, increases risk of injury, and displays an irresponsible attitude to the sport.

How specifically do you route the hoses required for this type of diving?

The bungeed Backup is on a 40 inch hose and feeds like any deco reg would. The excess lenght of the primary hose is stuffed under the stage wraps. It too feeds like deco reg, around the head. Deployment is similar except you just pull the extra hose loose from the AL80. The diver has ready access to the AL80 allowing the extra hose to be restowed. The bottle has a SPG rigged like any deco bottle. This is very similar to a DIR diver scootering while using a stage.

Can you provide photos?

No pictures yet, soon I hope. Al jumped the gun just a bit, we planned to announce this ina few weeks.

What do you do in case of a failed scooter?

Exactly what I do if the bottles were on my back.

1) Get a tow from a Teammate. 2) Swim back to shore. Scooters have the potential to get divers into trouble if they scooter out further than they can swim back, but that's true if the bottles are on your back, or under your arm. Plan the dive parallel to shore, or use a chase boat.

Would 8lbs. of wing lift be enough in a flooded scooter scenario?

No of course not. I drop it if my team was at risk. They are still making more scooters.....

You aren't suggesting one should use their wing to compensate for a flooded scooter are you?

I estimate the X could become about 25 lbs negative in a total flood. Even if your BC had an additional 25 lbs of lift beyond what you needed for a "normal" dive, using your BC to lift another 25 lbs would be very bad practice.

With an X I don't bother given it's excellent track record, but it is common practice with some other scooters to bungee a lift bag to the hull, in case it floods.

I'll also point out that scooters rarely suffer an unexpected total flood at depth. The major floods are almost always the result of improper assembly and usually become evident soon after the scooters is placed in the water. Pinched or missing orings, that type of thing.

Floods at depth are usually shaft seal related and are typically much slower. I've had no problems with my X so far. With simple maintainance (rinsing) I have every reason to expect that to continue.

It's well to remember that the chances of any flood in a X are small, and smaller still when you consider the shallow depths I'd consider for "Monkey Diving".

Now again I've answered your questions. Do you ever plan to answer mine?

Tobin

 

[rjack321]

Who the hell cares? If its fun, doesn't damage the environment, + you and your team agree to the risk/benefits then go for it.

Basically, people with $3500+ toys got bored with them and started goofing around. Wow they are having fun, what a crime

Go argue about something important, global warming or deep sea trawling or something.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Better yet, take it back to the So Cal DIR board ... I'm sure there are folks there who might possibly give a crap.

I get the distinct impression this has more to do with GUE politics, and GUE-associated businesses than it does with anything else ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[SparticleBrane]

I don't think this thread could have been a bigger waste of my life if it tried. :shakehead

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I don't think this thread could have been a bigger waste of my life if it tried. :shakehead

Oh, but think about it ... with a monkey rig you could bring a scooter into the bathtub with ya next time ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Hoosier]

Who the hell cares? .

That was my point.....

 

[FishTaco]

The bungeed Backup is on a 40 inch hose and feeds like any deco reg would. The excess lenght of the primary hose is stuffed under the stage wraps. It too feeds like deco reg, around the head. Deployment is similar except you just pull the extra hose loose from the AL80. The diver has ready access to the AL80 allowing the extra hose to be restowed. The bottle has a SPG rigged like any deco bottle. This is very similar to a DIR diver scootering while using a stage.

Tobin, I just don’t see the advantage your rig has over a single tank set up.
I wish you luck in the niche industry of "Monkey Diving".

Al jumped the gun just a bit, we planned to announce this ina few weeks.

Yea well… I guess you gotta watch what Al sez.

I get the distinct impression this has more to do with GUE politics, and GUE-associated businesses than it does with anything else ...

Nope, not at all.
Just for the record, I’d like to add I have nothing personal with the folks at Dive-Xtras.
In fact, I would highly recommend AG and JoeT. for those considering technical dive training, they are excellent instructors; I only question the practice of monkey diving.

Chris

 

[cool_hardware52]

First you say:

Monkey Divers don't use wings! All you need is a backplate, an al40 stage and an X-scooter. Oh,... I almost forgot, you're not allowed to bring your brain with you while underwater, I think they even make a special little monkey brain box you can put it in when you're diving. I heard they allow solo diving too!

Monkey diving is just a perversion of DIR, promoted by the gang at 5th.d-X.

Then add:

The Promotion and act of Monkey style diving does not adhere to DIR principles. It is a foolhardy approach to diving which disregards diver safety, increases risk of injury, and displays an irresponsible attitude to the sport.

And now:

Just for the record, I’d like to add I have nothing personal with the folks at Dive-Xtras.
In fact, I would highly recommend AG and JoeT. for those considering technical dive training, they are excellent instructors; I only question the practice of monkey diving.

What is one to believe?

Tobin

 

[cool_hardware52]

I've been politely asking almost three days now for any specific reason why "monkey diving" would prevent one from adhering to the DIR philosophy.

Within the limits I've stated, a unified team, sufficent gas for the conditions, back up regs and long hose (5 ft) primaries, canister lights for communication, a balanced rig, with sufficent lift for the job, adequate training and adequate support (chase boat) what are the specific problems that you see?

Post 15 2/13/2007

Other than finger pointing and name calling there has been no feature specific critic of this configuration.

What problems do you see, and how would such a configuration prevent divers from adhering to the DIR philosophy?

Post 35 2/13/2007

BTW, I'm still waiting for any feature specific critic on how the configuration I've described prevents one from adhering to the DIR philosophy.

Post 64 12/14/2007

How? Specifically? You love to lob bombs, and level charges, but provide no specifics.

How, specifically, does the "Monkey Diving Rig", as I've detailed it, prevent the application of DIR principles?

How, specifically, does the "Monkey Diving Rig", as I detailed it, when used by a qualified diver, disregard diver safety?

How, specifically, does the "Monkey Diving Rig", as I detailed it, when used by a qualified diver, display an irresponsible attitude to the sport?

Post 68 12/14/2007

Now again I've answered your questions. Do you ever plan to answer mine?

Post 71 12/14/2007.

Tobin, I just don’t see the advantage your rig has over a single tank set up.

Is this your answer? Is it fair to assume that you have no answer?

Tobin

 

[Nemrod]

Wow, I love it, next they will switch to double hose.

Seriously, why are they slinging the bottle? better streamlining and balance?

I have been doing exactly this except with a steel 72, no BC, double hose (or single) and a basic harness and my Tekna with hot wound motor. Eliminating all of the clutter really allows a powerful scooter to realy get cooking.

In the event of a flooding incident it would be wise to carry a sausage and spool for the scooter, I don't need a life jacket for myself, I can swim.

I am now using a harness similar to this one and generally I use a Tekna side exhaust regulator though I have used the double hoses also.

Diving without a BC is easy, we learned that way. The scooter causes no problems.

Where do the side rigs as shown in the video come from, might be interesting to get one as a comparison to my vintage harness rigs????

Having used the scooter both with and without a BP/wing, the wings produce a lot of drag, this is one reason I just purchased a new Mach V--streamling while scootering (or otherwise).

If you really want to get moving, I have stuck my 19cf pony into a weight belt--sans weights and (kinda a poor man's side mount) and took off, wow, you can absolutely fly.

This is not new stuff but side mounting the bottle is interesting.

Here is another I have enjoyed, freedive scootering, use a super low profile mask and full foot fins or Force Fins and NO--NO snorkel. Take a breath and go, dive as deep as you wish and then surface but just before surfacing roll over on your back, take a breath and then arch your back to descend and then roll upright and pike just a bit to get pointed back down--repeat as needed or until you tire of it.


N