Moderation: Too much or too little?

[MXGratefulDiver]

Before recently, I would have voted "Just Right".... having now been "moderated" after participating in a thread that had me shaking my head the entire time, this will probably be my last post for while, because I am just not sure what is appropriate and what isn't... I am not saying that I shouldn't have been moderated, I am just saying that "the rules" aren't clear to me, that there are what appear (to me) to be shades of gray. On the one hand, disparaging/inciting comments about classes of people as a whole, couched as an inquiry in the green zone, are acceptable, while an observation on my part related to that behavior is not. Obviously there's more to it than that, but overall although I'm not an unintelligent person, I'm just at a loss to understand the philosophy behind (what I perceive to be) some of the recent direction in moderation. Of course it's possible there is no recent directional change in moderation and I am just seeing something that doesn't exist. And FWIW, on reflection, I think it's probably appropriate that my post was moderated for where it was, but the appropriateness of some of the other posts that preceded it - whether reported by others or not - I still question (ie, don't understand). And that's where the "shade's of gray" come in for me.

Either way that's ok, bc as i myself have stated in recent posts, this is a community that I just participate in (if I choose to). It took a long time for me to even register here after lurking, and longer still to post after registering. Mostly because I *did* want to follow the mores of the community... not to "fit in" but out of respect. Now I find either I misjudged or something has changed... not so much with respect with my post that was moderated but what led up to my post that was moderated...so I think it makes sense to go back to lurking mode to reassess. LOL - and this truly isn't me saying "I'm taking my toys and going home" it's me saying "I need to figure this thing out" - and hey, it's not like I post that much anyway!

So I didn't vote in the poll, because I am not sure if the issue is my perception or reality. If I were to vote, it would either be for less Moderation, or I think the current level of moderation is fine. Scratch that, I just noticed that there was an "another opinion" option - I voted for that one.

Kate ... as someone who really enjoys your posts I'd advise you to not let a moderated post affect your participation here. I've been moderated many times ... including several that were heavily "Liked" by other members. BFD ... I've never been shy about expressing what I think, and if the mods feel it's not appropriate, that's their call. Won't stop me from expressing the next time ... might make me consider expressing differently.

And I don't need no steenking smiley if I want to call BS on something ... if it gets to that point, I won't be smiling anyway, so why be disingenuous about it.

Keep posting, Kate ... some of us appreciate your perspective, even if others don't ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added at 06:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:36 PM ----------

I don't get defensive that easily.

Wish they had a class for that ... I'd take it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[lv2dive]

Bob you are awesome, Thanks! I think I am confusing my posts and PMs, I have responded to several emails/PMs and I must not have been clear about this in a posting... I apologize... let me be clear - it wasn't the moderation that has me stepping back... the moderation was the cherry on the whipped cream on the top of the ice cream sundae <G>.

The long and short of it is, I don't know feel like I know what the norms are here, anymore. I *thought* I had a pretty good grasp on them, until lately, but it seems like what is accepted and isn't, is different than it used to be. Or maybe accepted isn't the right word - maybe it's allowed, or encouraged - I'm not even sure? And unlike people with narcissistic personality traits, just 'cause I liked things the way they used to be, doesn't mean I think they should go back to the way they were (because I want them to!). But I do feel like I kind of need to step back and try to understand SB's personality again. I mean, there are other boards where I know I would likely get chewed up and spit out - but I KNOW that going in. I guess it boils down to expectation management... and right now I can not manage my expectations bc I feel like SB is changing... and to tie this back to topic, I do believe that is somehow related to moderation but i couldn't tell you how.

<G>

Kate ... as someone who really enjoys your posts I'd advise you to not let a moderated post affect your participation here. I've been moderated many times ... including several that were heavily "Liked" by other members. BFD ... I've never been shy about expressing what I think, and if the mods feel it's not appropriate, that's their call. Won't stop me from expressing the next time ... might make me consider expressing differently.

And I don't need no steenking smiley if I want to call BS on something ... if it gets to that point, I won't be smiling anyway, so why be disingenuous about it.

Keep posting, Kate ... some of us appreciate your prespective, even of others don't ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added at 06:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:36 PM ----------



Wish they had a class for that ... I'd take it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

There are no norms, Kate ... there's this big gray area that gets interpreted differently by different mods.

I can assure you that's it's always been that way, and frankly it's way better now than it used to be. There used to be a few on staff who ran this place like it was a Sunday School class. Now, I can appreciate their religious and Victorian-era moral views ... but not everyone shares them, and it bugged the crap outta me when words like "crap" were getting deleted because they offended someone's sensitivities.

There are yet a few on staff who, when they feel pushed, will push back hard for no reason other than that they can.

But yanno what? There's also a bunch of people on here who like to push, and who egg on those mods for no reason other than that they can.

That's life ... it's a big community, and in any community the "norms" are only loosely defined ... and there are always going to be those on the fringes of both propriety and impropriety trying to push those norms in their chosen direction.

I'm not shy about calling out something I think staff needs to address ... particularly if it's something that's been perpetrated by a staff member. But I don't get particularly bothered by it either ... not like I used to. Perhaps it's an acquired taste ... but, as Robin Williams so famously put it ... "joke 'em if they can't take a f**k" ... and if that offends someone's sensitivities and they decide to remove it, ain't no big whoop ... didn't lose much effort typing it, and I'll just find some other way to express my thoughts. But express them I will ... and you should too.

Don't worry about "norms" ... staying within them ain't all it's cracked up to be anyway. Be yourself ... because I think that's way worth being ... and if someone finds something about that to object to, that's really their problem ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[vladimir]

But yanno what? There's also a bunch of people on here who like to push, and who egg on those mods for no reason other than that they can.

This is a great observation. There is a sort of adolescent rebellion among this group, and it's frequently on display when they get moderated and quickly start a thread or two to complain about it&#8212;the online equivalent of throwing a temper tantrum.

 

[Cave Diver]

Before recently, I would have voted "Just Right".... having now been "moderated" after participating in a thread that had me shaking my head the entire time, this will probably be my last post for while, because I am just not sure what is appropriate and what isn't...

Kate, I can certainly relate to your feelings. I can recall my first run in with mods that left me in utter disbelief. Anytime we have an experience like that it colors our opinion of the process.

I am not saying that I shouldn't have been moderated, I am just saying that "the rules" aren't clear to me, that there are what appear (to me) to be shades of gray. On the one hand, disparaging/inciting comments about classes of people as a whole, couched as an inquiry in the green zone, are acceptable, while an observation on my part related to that behavior is not. Obviously there's more to it than that, but overall although I'm not an unintelligent person, I'm just at a loss to understand the philosophy behind (what I perceive to be) some of the recent direction in moderation. Of course it's possible there is no recent directional change in moderation and I am just seeing something that doesn't exist. And FWIW, on reflection, I think it's probably appropriate that my post was moderated for where it was, but the appropriateness of some of the other posts that preceded it - whether reported by others or not - I still question (ie, don't understand). And that's where the "shade's of gray" come in for me.

I'm not familiar with this particular instance so I can't comment on it. Allow me to make a few generalities though. Often when a post is reported, a mod may look at that post and make a decision on the appropriateness of the post. Sometimes they may read back and see what the catalyst for it was, sometimes not. When I address issues, I'll often try and take out the post that was the original causation, but it's not always clear where that line starts. If a determination can't be made, the next best thing is to take out the post where things clearly start to go over "the line."

Is the line grey? Absolutely. Every staff member has their own personal tolerance, biases and opinions. We're going to see things differently and react to them differently. We try to maintain a degree of consistency, but every circumstance is different, rendering each decision just a bit different as well.

My best advice would be if you disagree or don't understand a decision, ask the mod in question to explain it to you. I have no issues trying to clarify my decision for someone who asks me in an appropriate fashion, and I'd hope none of the others will either.

 

[Cave Diver]

Wish they had a class for that ... I'd take it ...

It's called Almost 20 Years of Retail.

 

[lowviz]

Vladimir,

There is a strong cultural difference at work here. I can't speak for Hong Kong, but am aware of Singapore. The Straits Times (A family member travels on business) Protest "T-shirts" are seriously frowned upon there, but here they aren't even noticed. People remain people, we fit into what allows a person to live one's life. I can see how a "temper tantrum" would seem to be a serious transgression to you.

Here what looks like a temper tantrum is seen as an appropriate way to effect change.

 

[ScubaSteve]

So A**hole ["moderated by yours truly] is back on the permissible menu, but the popcorn smiley is verbotten??

Now that right there is frickin hilarious.

---------- Post added at 01:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:18 AM ----------

And........BTW......

Spoiler

 

[lowviz]

Why? ******* doesn't bother me at all. P*****n, however, is a serious threat to humanity.

 

[vladimir]

Vladimir,

There is a strong cultural difference at work here. I can't speak for Hong Kong, but am aware of Singapore.

I have lived in Singapore and Hong Kong for about 13 years, off and on, but I was born and raised in New York City, so I know a good old-fashioned American temper tantrum when I see it.

The difference you cite is less cultural than imposed, by the way, although there is almost certainly a cultural component. Hong Kongers cherish their right to free speech at least as much as Americans, perhaps more (since it is always subject to revocation at the whim of Beijing), and they exercise it, along with their right to assemble, quite frequently. They were occupying the central business district here years before Occupy Wall Street, and they continue to, still. I suspect Singaporeans too would like to speak and assemble freely, but the prospect of bankruptcy, jail, or exile to Sentosa is too high a price.