halocline
Contributor
not worth it.
Mk25 evo intermediate pressure
- Thread starter scubapr1705
- Start date
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It would also have been much more helpful and informative if some among us would stop the ad hominem attacks. Nothing that either of the two of you have shared has been all that constructive. It is obvious that your thoughts on self vs shop service are not aligned. Agree to disagree and call it a day, or take you beef to a private mode of discussion to continue.
-Z
@207diver has it right, and @halocline gave you the solution. A quick polish of the knife edge is likely all that's necessary, and/or a seat exchange.
Not acceptable, but also not uncommon. Scubapro's QC, I can say from personal experience, is not what it was 25 years ago. Still great equipment, and great machining, but small imperfections are common.
The problem is that most LDS' are not trained to do something as simple as a knife edge polishing, or "dressing" as it's termed in Scubapro's manufacturing seminars. That may be why your shop is turning to the factory for help. All the factory will probably do is put in a new piston and seat and confirm lockup.
You were right to call this IP creep out of limits.
Not acceptable, but also not uncommon. Scubapro's QC, I can say from personal experience, is not what it was 25 years ago. Still great equipment, and great machining, but small imperfections are common.
The problem is that most LDS' are not trained to do something as simple as a knife edge polishing, or "dressing" as it's termed in Scubapro's manufacturing seminars. That may be why your shop is turning to the factory for help. All the factory will probably do is put in a new piston and seat and confirm lockup.
You were right to call this IP creep out of limits.
I am sorry, I think you folks are way too quick to blame somebody for something you know nothing about the circumstances and have only heard one side of the story. It is incredible for me that you, the self proclaimed experts, would make such claims when you hardly know anything. I can find many reasons for the LDS to communicate with the mfg. as a former DS owner and manager. One possibility is for the LDS to make a point with SP for some warranty issue and for them to have it covered by a new replacement. The customer could have gone to the LDS complaining about his new equipment and insisting on a new replacement where the LDS referred the issue back to the mfg. There are many scenarios for the LDS to do what they did and it isn't proper or fair for an outsider to butt in without full first hand knowledge and understanding of what the real issues are in this story before issuing such damaging condemnations of the LDS.
halocline
Contributor
Before things start getting off topic enough that the Mods weigh in, let's consider what we have here.
A great video showing classic IP creep in a young regulator. Period.
Question is, manufacturing defect or wear and tear?
@BoltSnap is quick to defend the LDS, and I don't blame him. They often have a low margin business, and service is not a profit center (though it does build customer loyalty that online retailers struggle with, DGX excepted). So @BoltSnap is right. There are lots of reasons the LDS might have turned to the factory for resolution, the biggest being that they might not want to get saddled with a service loss on a piece of equipment clearly in warranty.
But for the folks out there "picking on the LDS", myself included, they have lots of bad experiences with dive shop repair work to back them up.
What we don't know is whether the shop made this choice as the somewhat easier way out, with the added bonus of being able to tell the customer that they took his problem to the very top, or whether they didn't feel they could fix this themselves.
If the latter; if a shop says, "Gee! IP creep is pretty serious. We'd better call Scubapro.", then I'd say that complaining about the LDS has some merit. This is a dirt-simple problem to solve. A half hour (likely uncompensated) to polish the piston and put in a new seat, which should generate customer satisfaction. Or a quick piston changeout and seat exchange, with return of the parts to Scubapro for replacement as "a warranty repair". Again, the shop breaks even on parts but loses on labor, but hopefully gains on customer satisfaction by their quick action.
What we don't know is if the shop can handle a reg with IP creep. That's a fair question, even if we don't have enough data.
As a tech that helps out at my local shop, I'd have to say that that regulator would never have left the premesis unfixed, much less needing to send a video to the factory. If that's LDS "bashing", then so be it.
A great video showing classic IP creep in a young regulator. Period.
Question is, manufacturing defect or wear and tear?
@BoltSnap is quick to defend the LDS, and I don't blame him. They often have a low margin business, and service is not a profit center (though it does build customer loyalty that online retailers struggle with, DGX excepted). So @BoltSnap is right. There are lots of reasons the LDS might have turned to the factory for resolution, the biggest being that they might not want to get saddled with a service loss on a piece of equipment clearly in warranty.
But for the folks out there "picking on the LDS", myself included, they have lots of bad experiences with dive shop repair work to back them up.
What we don't know is whether the shop made this choice as the somewhat easier way out, with the added bonus of being able to tell the customer that they took his problem to the very top, or whether they didn't feel they could fix this themselves.
If the latter; if a shop says, "Gee! IP creep is pretty serious. We'd better call Scubapro.", then I'd say that complaining about the LDS has some merit. This is a dirt-simple problem to solve. A half hour (likely uncompensated) to polish the piston and put in a new seat, which should generate customer satisfaction. Or a quick piston changeout and seat exchange, with return of the parts to Scubapro for replacement as "a warranty repair". Again, the shop breaks even on parts but loses on labor, but hopefully gains on customer satisfaction by their quick action.
What we don't know is if the shop can handle a reg with IP creep. That's a fair question, even if we don't have enough data.
As a tech that helps out at my local shop, I'd have to say that that regulator would never have left the premesis unfixed, much less needing to send a video to the factory. If that's LDS "bashing", then so be it.
There was no personal attack on you at all. You have the habit of attacking others you know nothing about with very little information on the circumstances and make such big claims and accusations only to finish it with talking about your own glory. You had no basis for any of the claims and attacks you made here. If you think that you are an expert here, and I have no reason to doubt that you are an expert in what you do, why not offer your services to others? It is better to compete on a level ground than to attack and accuse other people of things that never happened based on incomplete information. When you attack the LDS, you are attacking their livelihood and ruining their reputation to the determent of their business and their earning a living for a lot of people involved. An LDS isn't an Amazon or Walmart that can survive baseless claims from some and still make tens of millions in profit. LDS is a very fragile business that is very sensitive to business fluctuations. A professional like you should take it easy before issuing such baseless condemning opinions that will destroy other people's ability to earn living in this very troubled industry and terrible times.
OP
scubapr1705
Contributor
Ok. I have news! What the LDS is actually trying is to get everything settled for SP to properly take a stand on how to proceed. Yes, it is an under warranty reg and Yes, we all want the reg to be fixed. Actually, SP called the owner of the shop the same Sunday that I sent the video to the him. Now, I have to wait for the weekend, so I can take the reg to the LDS and for them to follow SP advice (under warranty).
Hopefully, this will get solved and fixed.
Lets stop the "bashing" as no one has even touched my reg. I was only trying to understand if what I saw was actually not normal and how to proceed with it.
Lets wait and see.
Hopefully, this will get solved and fixed.
Lets stop the "bashing" as no one has even touched my reg. I was only trying to understand if what I saw was actually not normal and how to proceed with it.
Lets wait and see.
It is getting comical here. These good folks are condemning the LDS without knowing anything about the background of the issue. Their condemnations are "copy & paste" stock anti-LDS attacks that are have been used over and over for years here.The LDS is following mfg's' procedures on how to handle warranty claims and take care of his client but he is still condemned and bashed by the ScubaBoard nameless self proclaimed experts.
The OP is actually asking a totally different question and it is very obvious that he has no issues with his LDS, yet these glorious experts ignore the original and real question and just focus on attacking the LDS with no background information and no knowledge of what is actually happening.
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