Missing Diver Off Vandenberg?

[peeweediver]

There have been pages upon pages on SB throughout the last few years, and probably longer, concerning the role and responsibility of a guide/DM before, during and after a dive. As per Scubaboard's unique style, no consensus was ever reached. My takeaway after many headaches from reading too many posts: Pre-dive communication (divers and the guide per expectations) is important and, most importantly, training of new divers to realize they and they alone are responsible for their dive. Many pages were also spent discussing proper training, the current state of training and the current state of wannabe divers. Let's remember that, no matter where you are on these topics, someone lost their life and we are all deeply saddened when this happens.

Rob

 

[BRT]

My comment is based on 27 years in the Dive Business. Also- In order to function as a "Guide" in the Florida Keys (and other places I've worked all over the world, with the exception of the Dominican Republic) one must be a Certified Divemaster or Instructor. Which means they SHOULD "know better". When one is put in charge of other divers, there in NO EXCUSE for "losing sight" of divers who have placed themselves in your care. NO EXCUSE whatsoever. It's just that simple. All REAL Dive Professionals know that.

If you never lose sight of any of the people you guide that only means that you only guide one person at a time.

 

[johndiver999]

I think a DM has the ethical responsibility to provide the services and guidance that is represented to the customers in the dive briefing and also within any written policy information which is provided to the customer(s).

When an accident occurs, the "responsibilities" of a DM may be interpreted by a lawyer.

 

[SwennyKL]

If you never lose sight of any of the people you guide that only means that you only guide one person at a time.

Not true at all......It's a matter of adjusting the speed/tempo of the dive, positioning yourself to be able to see the whole group, checking the air of everyone in the group and adjusting the route accordingly...That's what professionals DO.

 

[Steelyeyes]

I tend to agree with that. The DM and instructors who pretend they have more than 2 pairs of eyes and never lose sight of 4 divers under their responsibility leave me skeptical.

I think on an open water reef type of dive it's generally possible depending on visibility. On a follow the leader dive on a wreck, not so much.

 

[Kinglake]

Wrong again. Professionals who are at the top of their game (like me) do it every day.

I am not even sure how you think this is possible? If you are guiding a dive, that means you are in front and the others are following. You have to look ahead to see where YOU are going, which means at that point you are NOT looking behind you at the people you are guiding.

Now if YOU are following the divers so you can keep sight of them, you are NOT guiding. You are babysitting, herding cats, whatever, but not guiding.

 

[hilljo88]

I also have done several dives on the Vandenberg and think it should not be attempted by divers with limited experience. Its deep and when I have dived it, it has had honking currents and limited viz. The dangerous part is that it is often attempted by divers with a new cert card and a dozen shallow dives in their log book. While the sand is 140 feet, the VDB is a tall wreck where the new diver in search of an AOW cert can be told to just stay around 100' for a few minutes and move shallower. But if the current is running 3-4 knots and there is limited viz, the diver has trouble holding position, loses sight of the DM at the front of the group and anxiously increases breathing. If they turn their head sideways, the mask starts to chatter off the face, the diver tries to clear it, gets panicky and is hopefully not blown off the wreck. Swimming furiously, they catch on to one of the mooring lines with barely enough air left to do a safety stop and surface. This happens often enough that some ops thankfully hang a tank at 15 feet. And I've seen it used often.

I have similar concerns about new divers tackling the Spiegel Grove and even the Thunderbolt. They may typically have less current and better viz but they're deep enough for the inexperienced folks to get in trouble.

 

[sea_ledford]

I am not even sure how you think this is possible? If you are guiding a dive, that means you are in front and the others are following. You have to look ahead to see where YOU are going, which means at that point you are NOT looking behind you at the people you are guiding.

Now if YOU are following the divers so you can keep sight of them, you are NOT guiding. You are babysitting, herding cats, whatever, but not guiding.

Nonsense. If that were the case we would get in car accidents all the time since we can only look at one thing at a time.

Good guides can find things to show divers, keep track of all of their divers air, know the most direct way back to the boat from where ever they are on a dive, and be aware of any developing problems. It's all about familiarity with the dive sites, a very high level of situational awareness, and having a group of divers that are behaving in an expected manner.

If you have divers acting erratically, then you become a babysitter. If all the divers are demonstrating competency for the dive, you get to do more looking for stuff. Check the divers air in the first 5-10 minutes, know who the limiting factors are, and keep an eye on them. Most of the time I already knew who would be the problems before we even hit the water due to interacting with everyone and watching body language on the ride out to the dive site.

 

[Bob DBF]

There have been pages upon pages on SB throughout the last few years, and probably longer, concerning the role and responsibility of a dive guide/DM before, during and after a dive. As per Scubaboard's unique style, no consensus was ever reached.

There is no consensus because the duties and responsibilities of the dive guide/DM vary depending on the dive. It is a good idea to understand what their responsibilities are before one starts the dive.

From my limited experience, the dive guide/DM would be more than happy to bail a diver out of trouble, but if they are there to spot critters, they may be occupied when one needs help. If one expects a babysitter, then hire a babysitter, not a dive guide with a half dozen other divers to find photo subjects for.

 

[Dody]

If one Instructor/ DM claims that he/ she would be willing to lose his/ her house and pay damages for the rest of their life if they ever lose sight of a student or a customer, I would turn them down and say that they are both delusional and stupid. If they believe that they have eyesight on everyone under their responsibility 100% of the time, I would say that they are living in such a fantasy that they are dangerous. Hubris. Overinflating his/ her capabilities. This leads to not thinking of what to do when something goes wrong. Cause they are too good to have anything go wrong.