Missing Diver incident

[H2Andy]

if they are followed, any procedure works (this ain't rocket science: x number of divers went in, x number of divers must come out).

if they are not followed (as here), they are all equally worthless

the weak link here, as it has been pointed out, is not the procedure, it's the people
implementing the procedure.

 

[IndigoBlue]

if they are followed, any procedure works (this ain't rocket science: x number of divers went in, x number of divers must come out).

if they are not followed (as here), they are all equally worthless

the weak link here, as it has been pointed out, is not the procedure, it's the people
implementing the procedure.

If you put yourself into the USCG's shoes, you would see why they are not content with your answer.

They are wondering: How can we make sure we do not get sent to the wrong search site next time?

Separate bracelet boxes would be needed, one box for Dive#1 and another box for Dive#2, etc.

That way they would not waste a lot of gas looking in the wrong place again, next time this happens.

 

[saf_25]

If you put yourself into the USCG's shoes, you would see why they are not content with your answer.

They are wondering: How can we make sure we do not get sent to the wrong search site next time?

Separate bracelet boxes would be needed, one box for Dive#1 and another box for Dive#2, etc.

That way they would not waste a lot of gas looking in the wrong place again, next time this happens.

Ok then, what happens with this system when the diver enters the first dive without taking a braclet? You've still got the captain seeing all bracelets in the box at the end of the dive, so the boat moves to the second spot. Of course, without taking a roll call, they wouldn't realize the diver was missing until they got back to the dock and had a gear bag left over (since all of the bracelets would be accounted for).

It wasn't the system in place that was the problem, it was not following it that was. The bracelets my be just as good of a system as the roll call procedure is, but if it isn't implemented, then it is just as useless.

 

[H2Andy]

That way they would not waste a lot of gas looking in the wrong place again, next time this happens.

IF that system is followed properly.

just like IF the system in place had been followed properly, the Coast Guard wouldn't have been searching in the wrong place anyway.

 

[dazedone]

The USCG just came down on Captain Ray. :frown3: I was on the boat, the only thing Ray did wrong was trust the shop DM. He is perhaps one of the best dive boat captains in SoCal. What a shame, but the CG rules are the CG rules and the Captain is in cherge of the ship.

http://diver.net/bbs/messages/42403.shtml

 

[H2Andy]

with all due respect to Catpain Ray, this is probably a good thing. the thing that
broke here is the human element.

lean on the Captains, and if they know it's their *$$, they'll lean on the DM's.

it all comes down to personal responsibility.

i am sorry, however, that Captain Ray as an individual will suffer, but that boat
could have gotten a diver killed. it might have been ME in the water, you know?

 

[roakey]

Some procedures are better than others.

Bracelets are better than most.

Bracelets are absolutely *horrible* in comparison to a roll call in the long term. Reason? In a roll call you have a single point of failure: The DM (or whoever). For bracelets, you have a failure point in the form of every diver on the boat -- what if a diver jumps in without their bracelet?

What if a diver looses the bracelet during the dive? How about when they forget to put the bracelet back after surfacing?

There's so many failure modes that in a short period of time the "bracelet board" will be nothing but noise (it's human nature) and we'll be back to roll calls [if we're lucky].

But I'm sure the USCG will feel the need to "do something" and will implement something DAN taggish or bracelets, making things worse, not better. But for many, the impression of safety is more important than real safety.

Roak

 

[gj62]

Bracelets are absolutely *horrible* in comparison to a roll call in the long term. Reason? In a roll call you have a single point of failure: The DM (or whoever). For bracelets, you have a failure point in the form of every diver on the boat -- what if a diver jumps in without their bracelet?

Actually, a roll call has a failure point equal to the number of divers - what if a diver mistakenly answers for another? I seem to recall at least 1 incident relayed on this board where this happened...

There are 2 different perspectives. One, a legal perspective. It would be nice for diver operators if a diver were responsible (the bracelet board / DAN tags basically achieve this). Then, the only person who can/should be held liable if the diver jumped in without their bracelet is the diver.

Of course, there is a human perspective because we are, well, human, and remembering to put on that damn bracelet is something I guarantee we would all forget at least once.

How about this... the fitting between a tank yolk and your regulator is controlled by a lock. Every tank yolk requires a different key. Whether you bring your own tank, or you rent, or you use one provided by the boat, at the start of the trip, the DM/Captain won't leave unless they have the same number of keys as tanks. After each dive, the keys have to be turned in. The boat doesn't leave until all the keys are there. I guarantee you if you jump in without your key, it will be a very quick dive.

So, who out there is a mechanical engineer? I'll get the patent process going - my guess is we can get CA to adopt this silly idea and make enough to buy our own boat, and then we only have our friends to blame if we're left behind...

 

[roakey]

How about this... the fitting between a tank yolk and your regulator is controlled by a lock. Every tank yolk requires a different key. Whether you bring your own tank, or you rent, or you use one provided by the boat, at the start of the trip, the DM/Captain won't leave unless they have the same number of keys as tanks. After each dive, the keys have to be turned in. The boat doesn't leave until all the keys are there. I guarantee you if you jump in without your key, it will be a very quick dive.

I really hope you and otter are kidding.

Roak

 

[gj62]

I really hope you and otter are kidding.

Roak

Didn't read Otter's till you pointed it out. Hopefully, the humor wasn't that well disguised, especially since I put the grinning smiley...