Missing Diver - Grand Cayman Sept 21, 2009

[Web Monkey]

Hmmmmm
My kind of dive, tell me about the site, show me the cool stuff, leave me alone, let me do my dive, let me manage my air, let me manage my plan, help me get back on the boat, drive the boat back so I can get a sandwich, give me a new tank and I will set up my own gear.

I am trained, I am responsible, don't lead me around on a leash.

I like those too, except I'd prefer the DM gave the site briefing, stayed on the boat and didn't help me up the ladder.

Terry

 

[kjvander]

Another thought on this is that reading threads like this don't put me off....they make me pay attention to things that i haven't encountered yet. I do most all of my diving in the midwest and get very little clear water. After reading about things that happen on wall dives, knowing that my wife and I are heading to Coz in a few months, we have done a few dives in some of the quarries where we swim along the rock walls and maintain depth and also find the drop offs to the deep holes and such and make sure we pay attention to these spots more. Seeing stuff like this is more apt to make people think.

As far as the dangers of diving....yes there are....if you go around telling people that scuba diving is a great sport that is safe and and a great opportunity to explore a new world you are right....however if you don't explain and make people aware of the safety risks while diving...then you are leaving out the most important part of training. Things like if you hold your breath, go to deep for too long....issues like the bends and embolisms.....making sure that you equalize your ears so you don't damage your ears....those are real risks on every single dive. if you go around telling people that nothing can happen...then you are misleading them and asking for an accident. Explaining to people what can happen and the ways to deal with it or the ways to prevent it is all part of training...if you never went through regulator retrieval or mask clearing...would you know what to do in those situations. While agree that you want to be positive about diving and ecourage more and more people to dive.....you have to be real about it as well. We are in an unnatural environmental with life support equipment on our back....we have to know what can go wrong and how to deal with those situations.

 

[bsee65]

Just to echo what Rich is saying. I have been planning my first trip to the Cayman Islands and have definitely not been put off by this thread (Nor the other similar threads about incidents in the Carribean) What it has done is to make me look more closely at the various dive operations and decide which one to use. It has also made me more aware of the level of self sufficiency I will need to have. This is especially true as I will be going as a "Tourist" without my regular dive buddy.

One thing we can all attempt in these cases is to find insta-buddies who are a little less instant. Dependidng where you are going or how you are getting there, you might have the opportunity to "meet" other divers with similar plans beforehand. Check out the buddy finder on this site. The boards for the region to which you are travelling might lead you to another member with a similar itinerary. Other sites, for example CruiseCritics, have boards for you to chat with people who will be on the boat with you if you are cruising.

Even though you might not be able to meet for a dive before the vacation, you could get lucky and start communication with someone beforehand. That could get you a better match than random pairing, or no pairing at all, on a dive boat heading to the site. Not sure if this directly relates to this incident, but maybe useful to think about if you're a vacation diver.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

It does my heart good to know that this thread and many of the posters on it have had an effect on at least one diver. That it is very likely now that one more person will be a thinking diver who knows better than to trust someone unknown to them to keep them safe, and as a result will be better informed and less likely to end up as the subject of one of these threads. That is worth every minute I spend reading and posting to these forums.

And to "tanks" , yes I am not a PADI instructor. However even if I were I would not change my approach to teaching and my opinions on dive safety and education. I actually take a bit of offense at your statement that we need to look at this as an industry. That is exactly what is wrong with much of diving today. I do not do this for a living. Where I am located I'd starve. Therefore I do not look at my students as customers, income, or a means to a bigger bottom line. They are my students, I am an educator. My job is not to put as many people in the water as I can. My job is to put people in the water who are safe, skilled, knowledgeable, competent, and do not require the services of a DM or Guide for any part of their dive plan other than to point things out, give a site briefing, and stay out of their way. I would rather put two divers a year in the water who can be good buddies, plan a dive, execute that plan, and come back safe than put 100 "underwater tourists" in who know just enough to get by.

I would love to have you set in on one of my classes and see just how much it means to me to keep my students safe. And if this means causing one who is unsure of this, has serious doubts, or is doing it for a spouse, parent, friend,etc to stay out of the water and take up a sport that does not endanger them so be it. I would rather lose money because my class is too honest and requires too much commitment than lose it because some one ended up dead.

I freely admit that I do not have hordes of students knocking down my door. But the ones I do have get the very best that I can give them and as a result are people I would let anyone I loved or cared about to dive with. Without me or any other pro in the water with them. I certainly can't say this about many of the people I see doing checkouts and getting an OW card from less demanding courses and instructors. They are also the ones who sometimes spend alot of money and time traveling just to get to me and take a class the way I teach it. Especially when it comes to my advanced classes. My classes all start with the same lines. Welcome to scuba! This sport is fun, exciting, relaxing, educational, and if you stay within the limits of your training and experience-safe. Go outside of that though too fast or too far and it has the potential to hurt or kill you in some very nasty ways. In this class we are going to do everything we can to make sure that does not happen."

And one other thing. I use many of these threads and incidents in all their detail in my OW classes to illustrate the importance of what they are learning. Autopsy reports, police reports, computer logs, and when possible photos of dead divers help to drive home the seriousness of what they are undertaking. I also show the video "A Deceptively Easy Way to Die" to all my classes. That is one of the best instructional videos available as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Ayisha]

...That is exactly what is wrong with much of diving today...

Absolutely agreed. There is a huge emphasis in the industry today on how fun and how easy diving is, completely glossing over the inherent risks in diving and how they can be mitigated. There is little to no emphasis on personal responsibility and self-sufficiency within a team mindset, let alone a requirement that a diver be proficient in even the most basic skills. All of that nonchalant attitude toward diving contributes to the sheer lack of skills, awareness and personal responsibility that is prevalant today.

...My job is not to put as many people in the water as I can. My job is to put people in the water who are safe, skilled, knowledgeable, competent, and do not require the services of a DM or Guide for any part of their dive plan other than to point things out, give a site briefing, and stay out of their way. I would rather put two divers a year in the water who can be good buddies, plan a dive, execute that plan, and come back safe than put 100 "underwater tourists" in who know just enough to get by...

Keep doing what you're doing. It is clear, even to many new divers, which instructors stand out due to their exceptional effort, top-notch skills, utmost patience, empathy and dedication to teaching. It is also abundantly clear, very early on to many divers, who the instructors are that lack the skills or qualities to teach effectively, and are simply certifying the masses poorly.

I know that since I started reading the accidents and incidents forum at least 6 years ago, I have become a safer, more conservative diver because of it. Becoming aware of how quickly things can go south, thinking about how things may have gone wrong, how accidents could be prevented, and incorporating new techniques/methods into my diving are indispensable to me now, and I'm sure to others as well.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

As strange as it may sound, some of the most valuable lessons come out of wild speculation and "what-if's". It allows some of the more experienced divers (not me!) to share information and their experience on topics that might not come up in any other way.

Sorry for the sidetrack. And please, DO SPECULATE.

Best wishes.

 

[Cave Diver]

As strange as it may sound, some of the most valuable lessons come out of wild speculation and "what-if's". It allows some of the more experienced divers (not me!) to share information and their experience on topics that might not come up in any other way.

Sorry for the sidetrack. And please, DO SPECULATE.

Best wishes.

And sometimes newbies ask questions out of sheer naivety that causes an issue to be looked at from a point of view that was previously unconsidered because "it's never been done that way."

There is something to be learned from everyone.

 

[vladimir]

As strange as it may sound, some of the most valuable lessons come out of wild speculation and "what-if's". It allows some of the more experienced divers (not me!) to share information and their experience on topics that might not come up in any other way.

Sorry for the sidetrack. And please, DO SPECULATE.

Best wishes.

Here's a perfect example of that in a current discussion:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/305915-san-diego-dive-fatality-9-29-09-a.html

The dead diver's body was recovered at depth without his equipment. With very few facts available, we speculated that he may have taken his bc off in preparation for boarding a zodiac, while leaving his weight belt on. As it turns out, it seems that the charter he was using does all it's diving from the main boat, and our speculation was wrong. Nevertheless, we may have highlighted a risk that hadn't occurred to some divers.

 

[sffrenchman]

As a new diver, I find these discussions of diving accidents very useful, even though they are often based on speculations of what may have happened. They do not scare me off diving, but on the contrary make me understand the risks associated with certain types of dives. For education purposes, I would encourage the experienced divers to not only highlight the specific dangers associated with certain types of dives (i.e. wall dives in this instance) but also provide information on how to make these dives safer, what divers should be paying attention to during these dives, what are the critical skills needed to make these dives safe(r), etc... This may be helpful for new divers to assess whether they have the necessary skills to do such dives, and when they do, to ensure that they are keeping themselves as safe as possible.

And by the way, I love wall dives (did my first ones in Cozumel last week), and these discussions have not scared me off of doing more in the future.

Please keep analyzing, speculating, and providing useful in insights for the rest of us.

Thanks

 

[bowlofpetunias]

As a slightly experienced diver... I have learned a huge amount from speculation here. Most importantly I learned and am still learning how little I know!

There is a difference between fear mongering which no sane person can accuse Jim Lap of and preparing people for real dangers. Should we not tell people that drinking and driving are dangerous because we want people to buy cars?

Reality check folks.. the Dive Industry IS an Industry. Without the flow of money non of the developments and sites we enjoy would be affordable or available. There is nothing wrong with trying to make a profit as long as it the price isn't paid with lives! We need to identify the unsafe practices.. publicize the businesses that put profit ahead of ethics and support the ones who provide safe, ethical products and practices. If we examine incidents, educate people and we all vote with our $ that could mean just one death is prevented ....Just my .02