Minimum requirements for tech courses

[Diver0001]

.....

 

[Bennno]

@r
Read my other posts and don't start spreading rumors now.
Better try to get the people banned that don't wanna kiss your butt, ey?
Wow, way to go buddy!

 

[Edward3c]

...
I believe a minimum of 100 to 300 dives (depending on the circumstances and individual) should be required before venturing into technical training like mixed gas diving/decompression or cave diving.

Why?

If someone comes into the sport wanting to do deeper, longer dives why should restrictions be placed in their way. Putting in unrealistic prerequisites will encourage people to go off and learn by experience (trial & error), rather than get the appropriate training.

This is a past-time not a job.

 

[kensuf]

Rather than a set number of dives, I personally like to see a variety of dives in different environments. If you've done 200 dives but they've all been in Blue Grotto, that only makes you good at diving in a clear spring down to a certain depth. But if you've completed 30 dives, including high current/drift diving (West Palm), springs, rivers and some beaches (low vis), then you're probably a more rounded diver.

As for technical training, keep in mind that there's a difference between beginning a course and completing a course. I currently have two groups of students that still have things to do before they finish their courses (one cavern class, one AN/DP). Both sets of students are experienced divers, one is a divemaster, the other two have completed GUE fundamentals, but neither group have met our agreed upon standard to graduate a class.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

Every tech instructor I know will take their agencies minimums into consideration, but every single one of them requires a shake out dive with the student. If the student isn't ready, they don't accept them into training. Most tech instructors I know have at some point refused to accept a student into a tech course. They have told them what they need to work on and most offer to either work with them via Intro to Tech or other programs, or offer to dive with them again when the potential student feels they've addressed their weaknesses. I don't know a single tech instructor who views the minimum number of dives as the only criteria for accepting students into training. It's is rather just one piece of data to consider.

 

[RJP]

You must be joking. None has ever said once that once!

I've said it. Repeatedly.

 

[Bennno]

I've said it. Repeatedly.

You said number of dives are an absolute measure of skill?
Diver0001 has accused me of having said that, among other thinks... so I should have said that "I never said that".
He's now trying to get be banned, just FYI.

What do you guys even want from me? Go and train people with 30 dives for deco diving... I don't care. I just uttered my opinion.

 

[RJP]

No matter how skilled someone with 20 dives is, and I have no doubt that there are highly skilled individuals with 20 dives, their experience set will still lack some very important building blocks.

The chances of experiencing any of these situations and learning from it, is much more likely after 250 dives than it is after 25.

I believe a minimum of 100 to 300 dives (depending on the circumstances and individual) should be required before venturing into technical training like mixed gas diving/decompression or cave diving.

To be clear, I was not lobbying for 20 dives as the appropriate prerequisite, merely pointing out that 200 dives is no guarantee of competence either.

A minimum of 100-300 dives is equally silly if that's all you're looking at. A.) that's a 300% swing. B.) Without knowing what kind of dives they were and without personally evaluating the diver even 300 dives in meaningless... just as 3,000 would be. Which I think is the point that most in this thread (especially instructors) are trying to make.

As mentioned above, I know plenty of people with hundreds and hundreds of dives that I would never accept into a tech course. (Take a look at the video someone posted earlier where even the instructor is an absolute horror show.) On the other hand, I've met/trained several who would be good to go at 20-25 WITH THE ASSUMPTION that they met all other criteria including the vague - but all-important - "tech mindset/maturity" one. If someone had 500 dives AND had all their skills dialed-in BUT lacked the proper mindset for tec diving... I would not accept them into a tec class.

NOTE: Before someone jumps on me and suggests that I'm saying "experience doesn't matter" or that "20 dives is plenty" that is NOT NOT NOT what I am saying. Would a person who is in all other ways ready at 20 dives be even MORE ready at 200 dives? Of course. But remember, we're talking about the number of dives necessary to START TEC TRAINING. Not the number of dives needed to lead an Andrea Doria expedition.

---------- Post added July 20th, 2015 at 10:36 AM ----------

You said number of dives are an absolute measure of skill?
Diver0001 has accused me of having said that, among other thinks... so I should have said that "I never said that"

Sorry - not taking enough crazy-pills to follow along.

He's now trying to get me banned, just FYI.

That's ridiculous... you're doing a fine job without his help.

 

[nakatomi]

Why?

If someone comes into the sport wanting to do deeper, longer dives why should restrictions be placed in their way. Putting in unrealistic prerequisites will encourage people to go off and learn by experience (trial & error), rather than get the appropriate training.

This is a past-time not a job.

I don't feel that requiring a bare minimum experience of 100 dives before venturing into more involved diving, e.g. accelerated decompression, trimix or cave diving, is "unrealistic".

People need to take it one step at a time and not become a dive instructor or, in this case, a technical diver within the first 6 months of their diving career.

 

[Bennno]

Sorry - not taking enough crazy-pills to follow along.

Cool, just post replies to stuff you haven't read.
You wrote this: "Doesn't matter if the student has 2 dives, 2 dozen dives, 200 dives, or 2,000 dives."
It least I'm consistent in what I'm saying.

That's ridiculous... you're doing a fine job without his help.

I'm just saying what Diver0001 said in the post he deleted.