Minimum depth for PADI AOW deep checkout dive?

[Tigerman]

My reply was based on the title of the OP Thread.

You are right - it is possible to get your AOW without Deep. SDI for example requires 25 logged dives plus four specialties - and offers about 30 possbile specialty areas available for the OW Diver. I would personally suggest that Deep be a core requirement since many Dive Operators consider AOW and Deep certification synonymous. If not for AOW - then I certainly would recommend the OP take Deep for the training value and experience.

Dive Safe!

PADI AOW however you can NOT get without deep dive, but the deep dive part of PADI AOW is not the same as the deep diver specialty and the PADI AOW doesnt certifty you for as deep diving as the deep diver specialty..

 

[Hallmac]

So those of you that like to take your students to 100', do you set them up in larger tanks?

If you do take your students beyond 80' in an AL80, what's your gas management plan?

To answer your first question: No we typically use AL80's. Most places I have traveled to use them daily for 100 FT+ dives. If that is what the common traveler will be using why not train my students to do it a safe as possible.

To the second: I make that a part of the check out. The group of students are given as much information on site conditions, safety requirements, depth, time, and exactly what I expect to see during the dive. They are then required to plan the dive including their gas requirements based upon their personal profile, each is reviewed and approved, or, discussed and modified individually. Then as a group they are to develop a plan that the entire group can dive safely and return to the surface with the required minimums I have set. Once they have agreed upon a plan it is evaluated and either approved, or, discussed and modified. The final plan is then recorded by all.

Post-dive each is required to calculate the actual dive data and record it. We then discuss as a group how accurate the dive plan was, the causes of any discrepancies, and how it can be improved. Then we get into individual and group performance on the dive.

I work them harder on the surface than in the water.

During the classroom work, the air connoisseurs are identified and if necessary will have addressed the cylinder selection. I expect them to come to the check out ready. If they are not, I figure they did not pay attention in class, did not do the required work, are not ready for an advanced card.

 

[BORG]

I have had a 95cu. ft. LP steel tank that I've had for about 8 yrs. I think I should have more than enough gas for a 100ft. AOW deep check-out dive. I am sold on the steel tanks, no more Aluminum "corks" for me. I have more gas and have better buoyancy management with 95 LP steel. Plus, I can my filled up to 3000PSI and more through my LDS.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

For AOW qualification, I would expect deep dives to be in the range of 100 to 130 fsw to get the full training benefit and experience of deep diving conditions. I would personally not consider 75' as sufficient, although I would have to check the PADI Standards to verify. With SDI, the first dive is limited to 100 fsw, and second dive is limited to 130 fsw. I would expect actual training dives be very close to these maximums.

If you take a better look at the op you'll see that this is an AOW question, not a Deep Specialty question.

My reply was based on the title of the OP Thread.

You are right - it is possible to get your AOW without Deep. SDI for example requires 25 logged dives plus four specialties - and offers about 30 possbile specialty areas available for the OW Diver. I would personally suggest that Deep be a core requirement since many Dive Operators consider AOW and Deep certification synonymous. If not for AOW - then I certainly would recommend the OP take Deep for the training value and experience.

This is the second time today I have come across posts about this minimum 25 logged dive SDI Advanced, yet the SDI web pages only show an Advanced Adventure Diver cert, which does require both a Deep and a Navigation dives (just like PADI). :mooner:

With regard to PADI, the instructor must receive permission from PADI in order to do the AOW deep dive deeper than 100' (like to the deck of the Duanne off Key Largo - 108'). In my neck of the woods, most if not all operators know there is a big difference between most AOW's and most Deep Specialties.

This thread is about the AOW deep checkout dive; perhaps you could tell us about your AOW deep checkout dive, as that would be more on topic than any of your other posts here.

 

[dcs917]

Halemano - thanks for your reply on this and other posts on the Board regarding similar topics. I am only a humble SDI Divemaster, and I do not want to get too far off-track from the OP, but will try to briefly respond for the sake of clarity:

SDI has the "Advanced Diver Development Program" by which a diver can achieve the "Advanced Diver" Specialty. The requirements (paraphrased) are as follows: 1) completion of 4 specialty courses, and 2) completion of 25 logged dives. These requirements are found in Section 8 of the SDI Instructor Manual dated 11/13/2007, Revision 8.0, page 22 of 32. There is no mention of the Deep Diver Specialty, or Navigation as required elements of this training. This is the Specialty I referred to in my earlier posts.

SDI also has - as you note - an "Advanced Adventure Diver Specialty" which requires (paraphrased again): 1) 5 dives, 2) one dive deeper than 60 ft., 3) 1 Navigation dive, 4) Dive Planning, etc. This specific Specialty is to give the diver an overview of the 2 core (Deep and Navigation) and 3 diver-selected Specialties. So from this reference - Deep is considered a "Core" Specialty in SDI's definition. This certification should not be confused with the "Advanced Diver" Specialty mentioned in the paragraph above.

Perhaps some SDI Instructors would like to weigh-in on this topic and let me know if I have gone astray on this reply! Hope this helps..

Dive Safe!

 

[drew0930]

So those of you that like to take your students to 100', do you set them up in larger tanks?

I ask this because, personally, I follow and recommend that no one dive deeper than the number of cubic feet of air they have on their backs. So when diving an AL80, we keep our max depth at 80' (yes, I know an 80 is only 77.4cf, but I get mine pumped to 3200, so we actually do have 80cf in them...).

If you do take your students beyond 80' in an AL80, what's your gas management plan?


BTW, to answer the OP's question, yes, 75' is deep enough to satisfy the PADI AOW deep dive standards.

Does some certification group recommend this? I never heard of anyone limiting their depth to the cu/ft in their tank. How would anyone ever dive below 80ft w/o having to dig up larger tanks which most dive ops don't seem to carry. In the keys, I don't know a single op that does and almost all of their wrecks are much deeper than 80 feet. Seems pretty arbitrary to me.

 

[D_B]

It's a quick rule of thumb ... Rock Bottom and Gas Management for Recreational Divers
From Lamont's Rock Bottom gas planing thread/post
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/171488-rock-bottom-information.html

My AOW checkout dive was to 100ft, only spent 5 minutes there, just enough time to perform some dexterity exercises .. the students were at 75 feet and desended a line to the plainly visible instructor as each couple returned

 

[Rhone Man]

When I did my AOW (in 1987) the instructor told us we had to go deeper than 100' for the checkout on the deep dive. Either he may have been mistaken, or standards may have changed (I suspect the latter).

When I did my deep diver speciality (in 2008) we didn't dive once deeper than 85'. Which I have to say, I did think rather defeated the point.

 

[b1gcountry]

IMO, it doesn't really matter how deep you go. Diving at 100' is really no different than diving at 50' (except maybe available light in some areas). The main focus of the course should be procedures, maintaining a given depth, learning about decompression (ie, how the body off-gasses nitrogen), safe ascents, safety stops, how to plan a dive, and how to calculate gas requirements. You can do all this without actually diving to 100+ feet. I don't think the focus of the course should be to push the students deeper, it should be to educate them how to do deeper dives so they can expand their depths themselves progressively.

Does some certification group recommend this? I never heard of anyone limiting their depth to the cu/ft in their tank. How would anyone ever dive below 80ft w/o having to dig up larger tanks which most dive ops don't seem to carry. In the keys, I don't know a single op that does and almost all of their wrecks are much deeper than 80 feet. Seems pretty arbitrary to me.

I've never seen any information published by the major training agencies that even addresses gas planning. This is, however a good rule of thumb. Just because places often pull off dives like this on small tanks, doesn't mean it will be a relaxing, enjoyable dive with sufficient reserves for an emergency. I know a lot of places in the keys do this to limit your bottom time and get more charters in per day. AL80's are also a lot cheaper than steels.

Tom

 

[vondo]

Standards allow the deep dive to be 60 ft.

Walter, is there a further "allowance" for cold water? As I recall, you can do the deep part of AOW at Martha's quarry near Nashville at 55'. I was told this was OK since it is cold.