Mexico vs Florida (better training caves)

[The Chairman]

In Mexico, being able to hover is far, far more important. Not only are the decorations pretty, but they are fragile.

In Florida, you have to learn how to read the cave, especially in terms of flow. Thousands of miles in a canoe really helps me there. You also have to learn to think beyond the current, which is huge in regards to situational awareness.

Y'all within driving distance and/or same time zone as FL and MEX caves need to stop complainin' and think of us poor West coasters. Srsly.

The other plus for Cave Country is that I live in the area! Let's go for a dive and/or lunch/dinner when you guys are down here. Srsly.

 

[jadairiii]

.How do air-traveling cave divers manage to meet the 50 lb. per bag maximum that most of us are subject to? .

Both years I've gone I flew JetBlue which allowed me a second checked bag for $35.00. So I had a backpack and a carry on (with my cloths/toiletries) then checked 2 big suitcases. I used one big Pelican case for my dry suit and regulators (and some really light stuff) and I lighter hard side case for all the other "non-breakables". and I was bringing a SS back plate. Lights and such got carried on and I rented batteries for it in MX.

Funny side story, second trip my 2 buddies and I go from Airport to car rental, get the van they head to Zero Gravity, get there about 7pm, unload the van...and my cloths/toiletries are missing! The people at the car rental place grabbed it when I was not looking and tossed it in another car. That person emailed me that they had my suit case, took me 2 days to get it, they were staying in Playa and there were gaps in communication. Keep an eye on your bags!

 

[kensuf]

Florida versus Mexico for cave diving is a wonderful first-world problem, isn't it?

As I haven't yet taken a Mexico trip to try out my shiny new Intro-to-Cave ticket, I have begun to ponder the question of lugging cave gear to Mexico: How do air-traveling cave divers manage to meet the 50 lb. per bag maximum that most of us are subject to? Or do you just pay for an overweight bag or second bag, figuring that another $55 for a 2nd bag is chump change compared with the $10k you spent on gear and training to get to this point (not to mention the week of guided diving in my case)? I think I just answered my own question. I'll probably have to pony up for a private van from the airport, too. When I used to fly into Cancun for Cozumel reef trips, I traveled light. Now my wife and I will probably take the drysuits, obviously the lights/chargers, reels, spools, etc.

Regs and lights are carry-on. Wing/backplate/exposure suit/etc are packed in a mesh bag. Doubles stay home. I can get away with a single bag for a trip, but when I start looking at bringing a rebreather, it's two bags.

 

[SandyRobinson]

How do air-traveling cave divers manage to meet the 50 lb. per bag maximum that most of us are subject to? ... I'll probably have to pony up for a private van from the airport, too.

My check luggage weighs between 47 and 49 pounds and contains exposure protection, sm harness, fins, clothes, and assorted spools, clips, bands, hose clamps, tools, a few spare parts, etc. My carry-on contains, regs, computers, lights, analyzers, and a change of clothes. If for some reason, my checked bag is lost, I will have my more personal gear with me. I save a few pounds by packing clothes for half the week and washing clothes during my stay.

My travels have been to Tulum, and I have had good experiences with Canada Transfers. Guessing that a RT for you and your wife to PA would be about $120. And you can pre-purchase your favorite beverage for the trip Depending on my arrival time and the bus schedule, I have had good service form ADO busses.

Have fun!

 

[kierentec]

In Mexico, being able to hover is far, far more important. Not only are the decorations pretty, but they are fragile.

I would strongly argue that being able to hover motionless and hold position precisely is equally as important diving in any cave. There is simply no excuse for the contrary.

 

[The Chairman]

I would strongly argue that being able to hover motionless and hold position precisely is equally as important diving in any cave. There is simply no excuse for the contrary.

I agree on many levels, and I have left no hand/knee prints in any Florida cave. However, in Florida, it's not uncommon for people to touch top and bottom when things get pretty close like in Madison Blue. I touched the ceiling in there three times in back mount. I felt bad, but I'm confident I did not leave a mark. In Mexico, many restrictions are simply covered in decorations. I remember passing through the Organ(???). I didn't think it was possible to sweat underwater until that. I strayed a bit right of my guide to check out a formation. Wow, it just got tighter. A lot tighter and I had to back out in order to get back on track.

So, while it sounds cool to say it's just as important in any cave, in practice, that's just not true. At least not to me. But hey, I'm still figuring out my buoyancy in my rebreather. I'll dive Peacock and LR because there's a lot of wiggle room. I'm not ready to dive it in Mexico. Not by a long shot. I'm not sure it's worth it either.

 

[kierentec]

I agree on many levels, and I have left no hand/knee prints in any Florida cave. However, in Florida, it's not uncommon for people to touch top and bottom when things get pretty close like in Madison Blue. I touched the ceiling in there three times in back mount. I felt bad, but I'm confident I did not leave a mark. In Mexico, many restrictions are simply covered in decorations. I remember passing through the Organ(???). I didn't think it was possible to sweat underwater until that. I strayed a bit right of my guide to check out a formation. Wow, it just got tighter. A lot tighter and I had to back out in order to get back on track.

So, while it sounds cool to say it's just as important in any cave, in practice, that's just not true. At least not to me. But hey, I'm still figuring out my buoyancy in my rebreather. I'll dive Peacock and LR because there's a lot of wiggle room. I'm not ready to dive it in Mexico. Not by a long shot. I'm not sure it's worth it either.

Being able to sit still is not only important for cave conservation, but also for managing problems that arise. I would actually argue that in a cave with flow, it’s even MORE important to be able to hold position precisely when SHTF. Being able to manage failures and communicate with your team as stress increases without making issues worse by drifting off the line or trashing the vis is critical whether there’s pretty formations or not. It’s easy to forget all that, as 99.9% of the time, nothing bad happens, so you’ll probably be fine.

 

[rddvet]

Being able to sit still is not only important for cave conservation, but also for managing problems that arise. I would actually argue that in a cave with flow, it’s even MORE important to be able to hold position precisely when SHTF. Being able to manage failures and communicate with your team as stress increases without making issues worse by drifting off the line or trashing the vis is critical whether there’s pretty formations or not. It’s easy to forget all that, as 99.9% of the time, nothing bad happens, so you’ll probably be fine.

I think unfortunately here in Florida, flow lends to lesser skills in some people. I find people get into Ginnie or little river and often get sloppy because there’s less consequences for getting sloppy. Aka flutter kicking through Ginnie, grabbing everything they see, and Cain gets less about trim since the flow will clear your silting.

 

[kierentec]

I think unfortunately here in Florida, flow lends to lesser skills in some people. I find people get into Ginnie or little river and often get sloppy because there’s less consequences for getting sloppy. Aka flutter kicking through Ginnie, grabbing everything they see, and Cain gets less about trim since the flow will clear your silting.

I completely agree. It’s sad that so many see the flow or the “undecorated” caves as an excuse to be sloppy, when it should be even more of an incentive to tune things up.

P.S. a proper flutter kick is actually an excellent method of propulsion in high flow.

 

[rddvet]

P.S. a proper flutter kick is actually an excellent method of propulsion in high flow.

Yeah that wasn't a good example