Mexico vs Florida (better training caves)

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I'm tempted to do full cave in Florida and then do a workshop in Mexico.

 

[CptTightPants21]

This has been said before, and it makes sense to me in general. More specifically, though, what would one learn from MX caves that one would not learn from FL caves? I mean aside from the mechanics of things that are simply done differently in MX, such as using line markers in different ways.

I did all my cave training in Florida, then went to Mexico for fun. I would not have wanted to do that the other way around. Cant imagine the "fun" a Cave I diver would have, after training in Mex in Alum 80's, doing Ginnie with 104's for the first time.

That said, I am envious of divers that do their Cave 1 or 2 in Mexico, for the mere fact of the amount of time they can spend in the cave working skill, in alum 80's.

I agree with the recommendations of Jon and others. Cave 1 in MX and Cave 2 in Florida.

The additional time spent in the caves, the revealing nature of no flow, and the increased complexity and variety of the systems in MX lends itself well to a Cave 1 class. Florida’s high flow and increased depth and deco obligations lends itself well to gas switches and stage bottle techniques covered at the Cave 2 level.

Regarding different “experiences”, any time a person goes into a cave in a new region they should have either an experienced buddy or a guide. Cave divers who aren’t familiar with flow might have a steep learning curve, but the same can be said with FL divers in MX—where finding the line can be difficult before you even tackle the complexity and delicateness of the cave system. Without the benefit of taking class in both locations, I would say that 2-4 days of diving with an experienced buddy/guide would be VERY beneficial in terms of helping a diver learn the lay of the land of either location.

In terms of some "other" aspects

Mexico--logistically easier, less driving. Better food in MX hands down. Better accommodations.

Florida-- ??in America, cheaper flights I guess? I suppose you could say less chance of being shot, but it's Florida, so...

I mean I like Florida a lot, but you will have a tough time lining Florida and Mexico up category by category and finding one that Florida clearly wins.

 

[tursiops]

What has not yet been mentioned is that the Mexican caves are typically decorated hence visually more interesting to dive in than a solution cave.

 

[Manatee Diver]

I'm tempted to do full cave in Florida and then do a workshop in Mexico.

I'm thinking about doing that route.

Apprentice/Basic in Florida (scheduled to be done in November). Go to Mexico and if allowed Bahamas and do some dives with a guide. And then finish in Florida for my full cave.

 

[rddvet]

I agree Mexico for Cave 1 and Florida for Cave 2. The only negative is there will be some gear configuration differences. If you dive bm it will be minimal, just al80s vs steel tanks. Not a big deal, just practice both. If sm, then that's alot more of a hassle. There's a big difference in steel and ali's in sm and there is also alot of Fl sm rigs vs MX sm rigs arguments between instructors. You show up used to diving only al80s sm in Fl for full cave and many instructors won't be too happy. Though a good instructor shouldn't care as long as your skills are good. I remember going to an area with a famous fl sm instructor works and did some practice dives in al80s and a more mexican style sm rig (stealth). I got alot of comments about the rig sucked and just put 2# wts on the al80s. It was pretty annoying. Funny thing is now that same instructor pushes the same sm rig.

 

[Lorenzoid]

MX is a MAZE!
You really can't understand how much more complicated it is until you experience it. And remember you need to know and dive the cave, not be a line hugger. Developing the perceptual awareness to see and understand the caves in MX (while doing all the diving skills) is an art that diving someplace like Ginnie or Peacock just won't convey.

That's hard to get my head around--"perceptual awareness to see and understand the caves in MX ...." Is that like being super-observant of the cave's features? If so, are you saying that learning not to be a line hugger by being super-observant/aware is something that MX training emphasizes? ("Learning the cave" as opposed to merely following the line was mentioned in my FL Intro course as being a skill to develop, but not expected of me to demonstrate in the course itself.) How much perceptual awareness can one develop in a 5 or 6-day course, anyway? Wouldn't that be a skill that is mainly acquired over multiple dive trips to MX?

Also, since Full Cave focuses on navigation, wouldn't the increased complexity of MX be an advantage over FL? Or is that backwards--you want to learn navigation where it's easier?

 

[kierentec]

That's hard to get my head around--"perceptual awareness to see and understand the caves in MX ...." Is that like being super-observant of the cave's features? If so, are you saying that learning not to be a line hugger by being super-observant/aware is something that MX training emphasizes? ("Learning the cave" as opposed to merely following the line was mentioned in my FL Intro course as being a skill to develop, but not expected of me to demonstrate in the course itself.) How much perceptual awareness can one develop in a 5 or 6-day course, anyway? Wouldn't that be a skill that is mainly acquired over multiple dive trips to MX?

Also, since Full Cave focuses on navigation, wouldn't the increased complexity of MX be an advantage over FL? Or is that backwards--you want to learn navigation where it's easier?

At the intro level, you spend much more time in the cave training in Mexico. And the time spent there is more productive when it comes to opening up situational awareness. In Florida, you kick against the flow loading CO2, only seeing enough of the cave to try to hide out of the flow, and then get spit out in a fraction of the time it took to swim in while getting blasted by failures.

I’ve had the pleasure of training a lot of divers in both locations, and at the intro level, students come out much more aware of the cave they were just in. There’s a lot to learn in Florida, but I feel time is better spent there training at the full cave level.

As for the “crazy complex Mexican navigation”, it’s really not that crazy in the training caves (no more complex than peacock). When you start to venture way off the beaten path, then things get tricky. Which is why guiding is so much more popular in Mexico.

 

[kierentec]

What has not yet been mentioned is that the Mexican caves are typically decorated hence visually more interesting to dive in than a solution cave.

That’s hard to argue against:

Jailhouse

• kierentec
• Oct 30, 2019
• 1

Photo by SJ Alice Bennett

 

[CptTightPants21]

That's hard to get my head around--"perceptual awareness to see and understand the caves in MX ...." Is that like being super-observant of the cave's features? If so, are you saying that learning not to be a line hugger by being super-observant/aware is something that MX training emphasizes? ("Learning the cave" as opposed to merely following the line was mentioned in my FL Intro course as being a skill to develop, but not expected of me to demonstrate in the course itself.) How much perceptual awareness can one develop in a 5 or 6-day course, anyway? Wouldn't that be a skill that is mainly acquired over multiple dive trips to MX?

Also, since Full Cave focuses on navigation, wouldn't the increased complexity of MX be an advantage over FL? Or is that backwards--you want to learn navigation where it's easier?

Jon covered it well. A lot of the populat caves in FL are are little simpler to navigate--it's a long tunnel, mostly subway sized, some a little bigger. There is very clearly one way forward and one way back. A lot of Mexico has very large or very wide rooms. It's not clearly one way forward and one way back. If you think about walking into a movie theater with stadium seating--there is the narrower hallway you walk down and then it opens up into a multi level theater. Florida is like the hallway, Mexico is like theater. There is line, but then the walls are 50ft away from line on both sides.

A side note: My full cave instructor told me that you can always spot the new cave divers because they turn their heads side to side when swimming in the cave because they are still living in a 2-D world. Learn to look up at the ceiling and see the full picture.

Mexico is a little more Stereo than FL.

 

[kierentec]

That’s hard to argue against

Though there’s plenty of pretty stuff to see in FL as well:

Peacock

• kierentec
• Oct 30, 2019

Photo by SJ Alice Bennett