Mentoring a new diver the minimalist way

[Eric Sedletzky]

Out of Air and unable to ditch weights has nothing to do with BCs.

Terry

It has everything to do with it when the guy was overweighted and counting on an aircell to keep him on the surface.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I meant exactly what I said. Telling a new diver to get rid of equipment that the mainstream agencies use as an integral part of their safety protocol would be a very big liability in the event anything bad happens to the new diver. The OP would essentially be re-training the diver how to dive, which would put him in the same position as any of the training agencies, however he would be lacking a curriculum, lawyers and insurance.

If anything bad happened, a good lawyer would have a field day.

Terry

I think this statement is absurd.
First of all it's not like the agencies never taught this style of diving in the past.
That would be like saying a new driver can't take their driver test in a little hot rod 32 Ford Roadster because it doesn't have antilock brakes, front and side airbags, computer controlled traction control, etc.
Yeah, the driver might actually have to know how to be a defensive driver and know how to drive instead of an a clueless idiot figuring all those safety featuers has them covered.
These dive shops aren't doing new students any favors by teaching them to rely so heavily on new technology. The core training is being lost.

Bottom line, this buddy of mine got his c-card at the LDS only because that's was the only route to get it and he's decided right off the bat he's moving on and want's to get into real diving and become a hard core hunter.

I see more liability just leaving him with the minimal training he recieved from his LDS and using rental gear.

 

[Nemrod]

Mentoring is not instructing. Friends diving and learning together is a long tradition, it is where the real learning takes place for most of us.

N

 

[Web Monkey]

I smell chips on someone's shoulder

You should get your nose checked. As mentioned several times, I don't really care about how anybody dives, except my buddy, and then only when we're diving.

However I do beleive that systems fail when not taken as a whole, and that taking the BC away from a new diver who was trained to dive with one is assuming a big liability in case of an accident.

You guys can go cliff diving if it makes you happy. I really don't care. I was just mentioning that taking away a new diver's BC means that you have invalidated the emergency procedures they were taught, and you would need to replace them with something else that works at least as well, then train the diver how to perform them.

Still want to do it? Knock yourself out. It doesn't bother me at all because I'm not on the hook for any of it.

Terry

 

[Teamcasa]

ZKY, Thank you for your original post. This 44 YO kid is fortunate to have you as his mentor. Diving has many styles and for some reason, each group feels their method is the best and all others fall short.

I dived many times sans a BC as a young man harvesting Ab's off our local shores. I have also used almost every gadget known to the modern diver and have settled into a setup that fits my style and diving and could care less if others think it will kill me or not.

Let me also say that having a good mentor, certified as an instructor or not, is the single best way to learn. Good for you in taking the time and energy to insure that he will be safe and learn from you and your peers.

 

[Slonda828]

You should get your nose checked. As mentioned several times, I don't really care about how anybody dives, except my buddy, and then only when we're diving.

However I do beleive that systems fail when not taken as a whole, and that taking the BC away from a new diver who was trained to dive with one is assuming a big liability in case of an accident.

You guys can go cliff diving if it makes you happy. I really don't care. I was just mentioning that taking away a new diver's BC means that you have invalidated the emergency procedures they were taught, and you would need to replace them with something else that works at least as well, then train the diver how to perform them.

Still want to do it? Knock yourself out. It doesn't bother me at all because I'm not on the hook for any of it.

Terry

You can tell you're a computer guy.

Here's how we restore those "emergency procedures" when we "take his BC away." Then again, we're not taking it, he's giving it up.

Me: "Hey dude, you can swim right?"

Buddy: "Yup, because I am not slovenly or out of shape. I care about my physical fitness, so I swim."

Me: "Cool, if we have an emergency on the surface, ditch your weight belt. They're like $20 bucks anyway, so who cares. Since we're in a buddy team, I'll be right here with you."

Buddy: "Right on, beers and sushi after the dive?"

Me: "Quite right."

There you go, I just mentored him on new surface emergency procedures, and I didn't even charge him 270 bucks or try to sell him a bunch of gear or make him buy a "specialty".

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

That's what we do is dive single tanks. Good for you that you like to haul around 240 CF of back gas and a bunch of slung 80's. We're not into that. I'd like to see you keep up with us on a hunt or a bug dive with all that crap. I'm sure you'd like to see us with our skimpy gear keep up with you on a 300 foot dive with ton's of deco. Ain't gonna happen either way. Two different dives with two different sets of gear for each.

We're not hung up on anything. I don't go around telling people they're going to die if they don't dive my way. What's an internet site for if one can't express the joy they experience with a certain style of diving. I just want people to at least realize there is another way to do things and to break out of the industry shell that has been created by agencies, dive shops and instructors which in my opinion have set up the industry to fleece as much money out of the diving populace to grow their wallets and insure their existence.

I think the wall was already built by the other guys from the first time my buddy stepped into the dive shop and got certified. By me and my group mentoring him the wall will be broken down and he can see the rest of the diving world.

I believe you missed my point entirely. I'm happy for you and your friends. I approve of mentors (a LOT). And I recognize there are many ways to dive, and many reasons for diving.

My point is that you should be able to enjoy your way WITHOUT taking potshots at how other people do it ... there shouldn't BE any walls.

When you can manage that, THEN perhaps we can talk about freedom ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[divefreak2]

Just like PhilEllis, it sounds to me that you are acting as your friend's instructor. Are you an instructor?

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Just like PhilEllis, it sounds to me that you are acting as your friend's instructor. Are you an instructor?

He's acting as a mentor. His friend is already certified OW.

I think, at least for PADI, a mentor is the next step above Course Director?

Just kidding. A little.

 

[mrabdiver111]

Hey ZKY, would you mind mentoring me? Im ALL for diving with no bc or any "specialty" equip. I bug hunt in the Channel Islands and hunt on the North Coast, and have seen the mobility of minimal diving.

Rob