Mentoring a new diver the minimalist way

[Web Monkey]

Wow, you really are a product of the new establishment.

I was trained about 10 years ago by a guy who had been diving since the days when you had to paint over the words "fire extinguisher" on your SCUBA tank and "SCUBA regulator" meant you had plans from Popular Science and knew someone who owned a machine shop.

Systems failing
Invalidating emergency proceedures
Liability
Accidents
BC
Training protocols

Actually, I create and analyze business systems and write predictive analytics applications. I'm pretty good at figuring out that if you do "X" and "Y" there's a good chance of "Z".

And besides, if you don't care, then why did you even open your mouth?

Every now and then I see a train wreck in progress and feel inclined to mention it. FWIW, I'm not surprised at the response. It's the same one that was popular when seatbelts were introduced.

Terry

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I was trained about 10 years ago by a guy who had been diving since the days when you had to paint over the words "fire extinguisher" on your SCUBA tank and "SCUBA regulator" meant you had plans from Popular Science and knew someone who owned a machine shop.

Actually, I create and analyze business systems and write predictive analytics applications. I'm pretty good at figuring out that if you do "X" and "Y" there's a good chance of "Z".



Every now and then I see a train wreck in progress and feel inclined to mention it. FWIW, I'm not surprised at the response. It's the same one that was popular when seatbelts were introduced.

Terry

I figured you did some sort of high tech analitical, mathematical, theoretical, mentally precise work of some nature, or a lawyer.

I make a living as an artist.

Now I see why the analitical protocols for you and zen minimalism for me.

A train wreck huh? don't hold your breath

 

[Slonda828]

I figured you did some sort of high tech analitical, mathematical, theoretical, mentally precise work of some nature, or a lawyer.

I make a living as an artist.

Now I see why the analitical protocols for you and zen minimalism for me.

A train wreck huh? don't hold your breath

This whole thing really is an exercise in psychology. As an educator, I often examine the motives that lie behind what someone says. I don't program computers or do other such binary functions, my job is more abstract than that. Since we are already certified, and are diving with a group of friends and helping one another out, we're doing a few things that many people on this board do not care for, especially ones that are employed by dive shops.

First, we aren't buying instruction at a dive shop, which many of the instructors do not like because it threatens them by eliminating customers, which affects equipment sales. Second, it implies a high degree of diving prowess and physical fitness which many dive professionals do not like because it makes them look sedentary, unskilled, or narrow. I don't begrudge you (you meaning some diving instructors) though, I would feel threatened too if I was an instructor and I didn't even know how to service my own regulator, dive without a BC, or demonstrate skills without kneeling on the bottom of a pool. Note that I am not implying that any of you on this thread espouse or exhibit those ideals.

The dive industry has very low standards for recreational diving, so anytime you engage in something with an above average degree of difficulty, you are going to get weird looks. I respect your opinion, but I don't agree. You know we aren't going to agree, so why not just let it go so we can talk about what this thread is about....diving minimalist. You think what we are doing isn't safe, I got it. Now, moving on...

 

[novicediver]

I did a summer school program in Hawaii when I was in high school (20 years ago) and I asked one of my teachers what kind of gear he liked to use when diving. His answer was a tank, backpack, first and second stage regulator, and some weight (not sure how much). He had no spg or bc. But then again his diving was for the purpose of spearfishing. Talk about diving with the absolute minimum.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

All this fuss just so a poor fellow could learn to dive without an airbag.

Nope ... the fuss is due to the fact that you and others have to make disparaging statements about how other people dive in an attempt to justify how you do.

That's pretty uncalled for. How you dive is your decision. To imply that everyone else is somehow "doing it wrong" smacks of a certain attitude that I've seen you object to right here on ScubaBoard. Just judge yourself by the same behavioral standards you want to see in others ... I think that's a fair expectation.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

What potshots? ...Oh you mean how instructors overweight students during open water then those divers go on diving like that thinking that's the way it should be done because god almighty instructor said so, then they die 50 feet from the beach when their inflator hose breaks off their BC and they sink like a rock, those potshots??

No ... THESE potshots ...

the industry fleecing machine

BC is not needed to scuba dive and in some cases is detrimental, regardless of the propaganda fed for decades by PadI and now accepted by even minimalist agencies like GUE.

Instructor, smuctor, who would provide better mentoring beyond the pool, a guy like ZKY with much experience in real world diving or the dive chick/dude PadI instructor with 12 dives total, 5 logged in the pool? Okay, 14.

in this airbag, padded, safety first world that divers are required to wear handicap devices that are of little use once a skill level has been developed

OW students are being taught incorrectly and led astray to believe something and trust something that isn't.

The lemmings follow each other off the cliff, they still all drown. You guys always go off the deep end like "your gonna die" if you do this or that or don't follow this PadI memo. Who cares about that crap, they have no legal standing, people can do as they please and they are free to learn another way, a way that does not require an air bag to buoy them up. It is not like we are trying to force them to take an illegal drug. Adults can exercise their adult minds to make choices. Besides, safety is way over rated.

a BC is just a crutch, it limits freedom and ultimately limits skill and enjoyment.

I just want people to at least realize there is another way to do things and to break out of the industry shell that has been created by agencies, dive shops and instructors which in my opinion have set up the industry to fleece as much money out of the diving populace to grow their wallets and insure their existence.

This is what overweighting and counting on a bag full of air to keep you floating will get you,... dead.

we will break your brain washed views

this buddy of mine got his c-card at the LDS only because that's was the only route to get it and he's decided right off the bat he's moving on and want's to get into real diving

THOSE potshots ... sounds like something you'd hear from some freshly-minted DIR dude who suddenly thinks his **** didn't stink because he's just realized there's more than one way to dive and somehow thinks he's better than all the folks doing it the "other way".

Yeah, I'll take the potshots.

Of course you will ... and although I think what you're doing is a really neat idea, I'll think less of your opinion because of the way you choose to express it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Twistedarts]

All this fuss just so a poor fellow could learn to dive without an airbag.

"Hey, Mr. Nemrod, how is it that you dive without dem dar automatik air bags?" "Well, now sonny," says ol' Nemrod, "it is simple,"

"We just swim down, then we swim around and then we swim back up."

N

Once again Mr. Nemrod you are my hero. I wish I had known that the minimalist approach was still being practiced. Yeah, I wound up doing the padi thing I could not prove my nasds course since it was 30 years ago in the caribbean. Is it too late for me or is there still hope?

I would argue however that the padi way is the new minimalist way. education wise that is. They taught me about half of what I learned 30 years ago. It is not the instructor's fault as he was ex-navy and went the extra yard, but still...

 

[gonphishing]

in 6 months. this guy without his wing is going to swim circles around web monkey.

I think nemrod needs to make a trek out west!

zky, your the best mentor anybody could have. much respect my friend!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

in 6 months. this guy without his wing is going to swim circles around web monkey.

Without having seen web monkey dive, how would you know?

zky, your the best mentor anybody could have.

If he truly believes that diving skills have anything to do with the gear configuration someone uses, that statement is debatable.

You guys sound pretty brain-washed to me ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[gonphishing]

Hey ZKY, would you mind mentoring me? Im ALL for diving with no bc or any "specialty" equip. I bug hunt in the Channel Islands and hunt on the North Coast, and have seen the mobility of minimal diving.

Rob

carful what you ask for. now you will ( need ) a M & B !!!