Mentoring a new diver the minimalist way

[Web Monkey]

Adults get to choose,it is called freedom of choice. The diver chose to ask to dive with the "Minimalist" divers and chose a path to seek the knowledge of zen minimalism.

Divers learned to dive and dove from their first dive without a BC for decades and some still do, I am sorry that in this airbag, padded, safety first world that divers are required to wear handicap devices that are of little use once a skill level has been developed. A BC is not a life preserver, it is simply there for buoyancy compensation, if you can compensate for your buoyancy needs via lung volume, proper weighting and attire there is no need then for a BC.

Repeat, a BC is not a life jacket, if you need a life jacket, get out of the water, remove your gear, go home, learn to swim or take up golf or something.

Well, actually, OW students are taught and trained that it is a "life jacket" of sorts and is used as such when on the surface. Regardless of your opinion, it is part of the training and is taught and tested.

You might not want a BC and are certainly welcome to not use one, however taking a newly certified diver and convincing him to give it up is just begging for a fatality and a lawsuit, since every OOA emergency procedure taught in OW ends with the diver on the surface, inflating his BC.

Terry

 

[Slonda828]

I have a good friend who recently got certified by SSI (I think).
He's been skin diving for a few years (free diving - but I like the old school term).
The skin diving is to get abalone and spear fishing.
He practices in a pool and he's getting some good leg power with those long fins.

He want's to dive with me and my group of minimalists. I told him we'd love to take him aboard. "One thing" I told him half joking, " You need to learn to dive minimalist with no BC if you want to dive with us". Without the slightest pause he said "Sure man, no problem, I'll do it, let's go."
I thought, wow, cool, finally someone who we get to start off and bypass all the traps of the industry fleecing machine.

I gave him a list of the basic gear he needs to get started. This stuff is the bare basic equipment which will yield the same end result as all the stuff that costs hundreds or thousands more. I had him go to the LDS that certified him. I told him that if he wanted to spend money spend it on the reg.

He already has a good wetsuit, fins, mask, and straight snorkel.
I'm going to set him up with one of my plates. I'll get him a wing but I won't let him use it just yet.
He's getting a basic Glass & brass SPG and a basic wrist compass. He wanted the latest and greatest computer but I told him if he wanted a computer to just get a half way decent wrist computer that you can use in guage mode and that has nitrox mode(he's going to learn tables for his own good).

I'm going to start him off doing some skin dives to get his breath hold times and stamina up and gradually get him into some bigger water for conditions training. Then I'm going to put the bare pack on him and start him off back packing from the get go. We're going to keep an eye on him and get his weighting right on. I want him to get a lot of backpack dives under his belt before he even thinks of putting that wing on. Once he gets to use the wing he probably won't even remember to puff air into it at first because he'll forget it's even there. This is when I'll know that he really knows how to dive.

I'm really looking foreward to getting this kid under our wings (or backpacks). Actually he's not a kid, he's 44 years old, but he has all the wonder and excitement of a kid, and he's skinny, so I forget he's not a kid. But we call him the kid.

I know you and I are already SB buddies so it's a moot point, but what a great philosophy you have. Embracing diving like a skin diver with a tank on your back is (IMO) the most fun way to dive. I love walking out of the water with my gear on my back while other people have their friends help carry their gear. Your friend is going to have a lot of skill by the time he masters diving and buoyancy control with just his lungs. I'll bet he'll be skinnier too, it's a lot more work physiologically to dive without a BC and junk ad infinitum. I still feel like a kid everytime I dive this way, it's adventurous and you really have to pay attention to what you are doing.

Swim down, swim around, swim up.

S

 

[Slonda828]

ZKY,

Looking at your avatar, I am guessing you are using a wetsuit and a steel tank of some kind. How do you set your buoyancy at the surface with a full tank? Eyeball level? More positive? Less positive?

Or, at what depth are you neutral with a full tank or an empty tank?

I am considering the same approach except with a cotton harness and double hose regulator. For the first evolution, I will probably be using an Al 50 and not one of my HP 100s. My goal is to get my trudging weight (what I carry across the beach) to a minimum. My lower back has been trashed for the last 4 months and I really need to get the weight down.

Bottom time is not necessarily a goal and depth will be in the 30' range.

Richard

Hi Richard,

I know you asked ZKY, but we've spoken before and maybe with this you can get two perspectives. I do a buoyancy check (for no BC diving) with a full tank and weight myself so that I am just slightly positive at the surface (maybe +1 pound for argument's sake). I pike or tuck dive down, and by about 10 feet or so I am generally neutral. Once I get to target depth, I may be a little negative until I use up some gas. I find that I can control about 5 pounds of buoyancy with my lung volume, so holding a safety stop at the end of my dive when the J valve hits at 500 psi (my adjustment to the J valve), I can do a safety stop without having to fin down. Hope this helps.

Tobin from DSS is a great source of info in this as well, and IIRC he advocates diving slightly light for vintage diving.

 

[Nemrod]

Well, actually, OW students are taught and trained that it is a "life jacket" of sorts and is used as such when on the surface. Regardless of your opinion, it is part of the training and is taught and tested.

You might not want a BC and are certainly welcome to not use one, however taking a newly certified diver and convincing him to give it up is just begging for a fatality and a lawsuit, since every OOA emergency procedure taught in OW ends with the diver on the surface, inflating his BC.

Terry

Well, that is wrong and if you look on the inside of a BC and read the tag you will see that it is not a life preserver and neither is it life support and that actually is not an opinion, it is fact. Thus the OW students are being taught incorrectly and led astray to believe something and trust something that isn't.

N

 

[Web Monkey]

Well, that is wrong and if you look on the inside of a BC and read the tag you will see that it is not a life preserver and neither is it life support and that actually is not an opinion, it is fact.

The Q-tip box has a warning that says "do not insert into ear".

Thus the OW students are being taught incorrectly and led astray to believe something and trust something that isn't.

Feel free to take that up with the agency of your choice.

Terry

 

[Nemrod]

The Q-tip box has a warning that says "do not insert into ear".

Feel free to take that up with the agency of your choice.

Terry

Don't care what the agencies say, it is a free country and in a free country adults get to choose. The lemmings follow each other off the cliff, they still all drown. You guys always go off the deep end like "your gonna die" if you do this or that or don't follow this PadI memo. Who cares about that crap, they have no legal standing, people can do as they please and they are free to learn another way, a way that does not require an air bag to buoy them up. It is not like we are trying to force them to take an illegal drug. Adults can exercise their adult minds to make choices. Besides, safety is way over rated.

They can instead learn to:

Swim down, swim around and then swim back up.

BTW, PadiI says you have to have a snorkel on every dive or you will die, a BC is just a crutch, it limits freedom and ultimately limits skill and enjoyment.

N

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

a BC is just a crutch, it limits freedom and ultimately limits skill and enjoyment.

N

I would take issue with that ... the only thing that limits skill and enjoyment is an individual's desire and effort. Any piece of gear can be a tool or a crutch ... depending on how it gets used.

As I said, you seem to be saying that there's only one way to "do it right" ... hmmm ... where have I heard that before ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Web Monkey]

Don't care what the agencies say, it is a free country and in a free country adults get to choose. The lemmings follow each other off the cliff, they still all drown. You guys always go off the deep end like "your gonna die" if you do this or that or don't follow this PadI memo.

I have no idea what PADI says. I never mentioned them and don't work with them, so you're on their own there. I also never said you would die. However brand new OW divers have been taught to use a BC and it's required for a significant portion of their emergency procedures.

You can dive any way you choose, however I would guess that you have more than the 5 dives required for certification and are able to arrive at an informed decision. A brand new diver really isn't equipped to do that.

Who cares about that crap, they have no legal standing, people can do as they please and they are free to learn another way, a way that does not require an air bag to buoy them up. It is not like we are trying to force them to take an illegal drug. Adults can exercise their adult minds to make choices. Besides, safety is way over rated

I bow to your superior logic.

Terry

 

[mikemill]

Just remember there are lots of different flavors of Kool-aid

 

[novicediver]

It is so easy to pass judgement from behind a computer keyboard. If a newer diver wants to learn the minimalist way right off the bat what is wrong with that? I look at it as learning to ride a bicycle without the training wheels.