Maui Trip Report: The Great, The Good and The Ugly

[H2ODoc]

Black and white rules rarely work except in black and white worlds. I took one of my new PADI Jr. Open Water Divers on her first post certification dive with instructions to "hold the young green sea turtle firmly down on the bottom, no matter how hard it struggles."

After I removed all the fishing line that was cutting over half an inch into the shoulder flesh, we quit "torturing and harassing" that turtle and I have seen it regularly, swimming gracefully near divers for the 3 years since.

For the record, you did exactly what my Open Water Diver Manual states. What you did is called "positive active interaction". Page 132. And... seriously... good for you.

At the risk of sounding like a "by the book" guy (which I'm not) or a super animal-rights activist (which I'm not), I'll stop beating this dead horse and go look for a live horse to beat! (sarcasm).

 

[Huck BB62]

I respected a gun, long before I ever shot one. I will concede direct exposure to something will give someone a deeper appreciation for something but only if they are ALREADY open to the idea. The HRA divers were already on a dive boat. We aren't talking about an out-reach style program with someone that has never experienced sea creatures.

The event with HRA went on for several minutes (more than 3) and involved about 10 divers before I intervened. HRA is fostering a behavior that is...
1) illegal,
How?
2) teaching said behavior as acceptable, and
3) served no purpose other than entertainment
I believe that pretty much sums up our entire existence as SCUBA divers?

You own a dog, I assume you treat your dog well.Putting it mildly, he's got his head resting on my foot as we speak. Michael Vick owned dogs too. Exposing a weak mind to poor human behavior breeds the same behavior. Don't believe, look at history. First example, Nazi rule and the German people. Good Lord, now octopi handlers are Nazis. When you sell your soul, you can NEVER buy it back!

[For the record, I'm from Philly and I will not support the Eagles so long as Vick is on the team -- whether he is playing well or not. A social scientist is going to have a field day with the Philly sports scene. I listen to Philly sports talk most weeknights. Most fans have traded their morals in order to win.]

On occasion, I'll dive in NJ -- The rules are completely different. I'll be on a dives with hunters. So I'm not a tree-hugger. So long as the spear gun is pointed away from me and they eat their catch, I have no issue.

I've also been on a Carib dive where someone pulled a small (2') nurse shark from a hole by its tail. The result was blood and scars.

My normal dive group went to Grand Cayman while we went to Maui. They saw local GC dive operators (that are apparently approved by the government) killing lionfish. Without natural predators, lionfish will overrun the GC reef. While I don't like killing for the sake of killing I understand the governments decision. As told to me, the operators must follow a procedure to make the process as humane as possible. I've seen first hand what lionfish (NC), crown of thorns (multiple locations) and zebra mussels (Great Lakes) have done to their non-local habitats.

As a diver on a charter...Hunt or Don't touch! No in-between!
So you'd be ok if I reached in, dragged the octopus out of the reef, bit it's brain stem and shoved it in my game bag in front of the group?

John

This boils down to opinion, plain and simple. The legality of it has been clearly established by the posting of the Hawaiian laws pertaining to animal cruelty. Being pedantic about the opinion only serves to alienate people. In the game preserve and with listed species it's very clear... don't touch.

I know dozens of people who handle wildlife underwater who are among the most avid protectors of the sea. These people do more to serve, protect, and promote the ocean and it's inhabitant's protection than any thousand other divers who practice only in postings and language. I'd like to have a Pollyanna attitude about this but I've seen people kill way more food than they need, take illegal specimens, and actually harm, maim or kill wildlife without need. Playing with a critter has its benefits and is so far removed from an actual atrocity that arguing about it further serves to only cause hostility. I apologize in advance if someone sees me stroking a shark's fin or goofing around with an octopus. Perhaps we critter lovers need to wear swastikas to let other divers know to swim clear of our evil actions.

Think about it. If this line of thought is carried forward to its logical conclusion, you will NOT be allowed to dive. The boats, cars and airplanes that carry you to your dive destinations are awfully polluting. A diver's mere presence over reef structure stresses the critters. By golly, everyone out of the water. We don't belong there.

So, where's the line? In some of our opinions, it's been clearly identified by law. Everyone else is entitled to practice their opinion.

I'd like to interject an octopus's opinion on this for a bit of humor!
YouTube - octopus steals my video camera and swims off with it (while it's Recording)

And play with one of THESE guys!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I21DFjRm_iw&feature=related Bwhahahahahahaha!!!!

 

[Shaka Doug]

I play with dogs. I play with cats. I play with birds. I play with hamsters. I've been known to play with squirrels, rabbits, chickens, horses, sheep, goats, cows and other critters. I play with people. I play with fish. I play with lobsters. And guess what; I even play with octopus.

I never try to harm anyone or any creature when I'm playing. I understand what harrassment means and know when things can begin to elevate to that level. Some people just have a different understanding, opinion or attitude and they are entitled to that. Maybe they just don't know how to play or just don't want to play or are not good at playing or have no interest in playing. To each his own, yeah?

I think a lot of good points have been brought up here and it's probably time to get back to the original topic (The Great, The Good and The Ugly) or move to another thread....Oh look, here's a good one D) : Shaka D's UNDERWATER FIN GRIND

 

[purcellj]

As the OP noted, he was the only one on the entire boat that seemed to object.

Where did I say that?

I'm still waiting for the OP to tell me what was illegal?

I don't need to answer to you. You simply dismiss what you don't agree with... My link, H2ODoc's link are examples. I really find it interesting that you are an authority on a dive you were not on.

 

[justleesa]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Now that everyone has said their opinion, and it is your right to have it, it is time to move on to calmer waters and play nice

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[KrisB]

Respectfully, justleesa, I would ask that if you're going to cut off conversation, that purcellj's unsubstantiated libelous remarks (and references thereto) be edited out of the thread.

Thanks,