Maui Trip Report: The Great, The Good and The Ugly

[KrisB]

There seems to be a regional acceptance for handling different creatures. We are relative newbie divers, but I've seen divemasters grab octopi and pull them out of their holes, yet scold people who try to touch turtles.

In my example, I have heard that turtles can contract diseases from contact, so maybe that's the reason we shouldn't touch them.

For me, I'd rather leave everything alone since I'm in their house. I'd hate for an octopus to come into my house and twirl me above his head and bounce pass me to his buddy.

Again, that's a question of legality.

Touching turtles (at least the Hawaiian Green Sea Turtle and the Hawskbill Turtle) is illegal, mostly due to their endangered status.

And that brings us to the next point: octopi aren't endangered. At least not the ones around Hawaii.

While I do tend to be respectful of the underwater life, there are occasions whereby it is acceptable to interact. I don't agree with "digging octopi out of their holes" but it has been pointed out that these animals are capable of great things. If they don't want to be played with, they won't be.

I've heard stories where an octopus has been captured alive and placed in a bag. A few minutes later, two other octopi have caught up to the diver... one has begun harassing the diver around the mask / reg area, another is quietly and cautiously opening up the catch bag and letting out the captured octopus.

Bottom line: if they don't want to be played with, they won't be.

 

[H2ODoc]

I didn't know turtles were protected, so that explains the stern lashing the DM gave to the diver that was trying to grab it.

As for the octopus, going "forearm deep" into it's hole was over-the-top in my opinion. I can see holding one if he seems "friendly" and not stressed, but the poor thing was trying to burrow deep into his hole trying to get away from this diver.

Another example is holding nurse sharks in Belize. The sharks didn't appear to be stressed or trapped when the DM held him for us, so I didn't see a huge problem. I wouldn't personally do it, but to each their own (within the legal and ethical limits) says me.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

In my example, I have heard that turtles can contract diseases from contact, so maybe that's the reason we shouldn't touch them.

I didn't know turtles were protected, so that explains the stern lashing the DM gave to the diver that was trying to grab it.

On all of my last visits to the mainland, just before landing back in Hawaii the airplane plays a video on every screen, with sound on every speaker, explaining many things about Hawaii, including that sea turtles are both State and Federally protected in Hawaii.

Just about any web search about sea turtles will result in links to pages about threats to sea turtles. There is not and has never been a disease passed from human to sea turtle.

Threats to Marine Turtles

 

[purcellj]

I respected a gun, long before I ever shot one. I will concede direct exposure to something will give someone a deeper appreciation for something but only if they are ALREADY open to the idea. The HRA divers were already on a dive boat. We aren't talking about an out-reach style program with someone that has never experienced sea creatures.

The event with HRA went on for several minutes (more than 3) and involved about 10 divers before I intervened. HRA is fostering a behavior that is...
1) illegal,
2) teaching said behavior as acceptable, and
3) served no purpose other than entertainment

You own a dog, I assume you treat your dog well. Michael Vick owned dogs too. Exposing a weak mind to poor human behavior breeds the same behavior. Don't believe, look at history. First example, Nazi rule and the German people. When you sell your soul, you can NEVER buy it back!

[For the record, I'm from Philly and I will not support the Eagles so long as Vick is on the team -- whether he is playing well or not. A social scientist is going to have a field day with the Philly sports scene. I listen to Philly sports talk most weeknights. Most fans have traded their morals in order to win.]

On occasion, I'll dive in NJ -- The rules are completely different. I'll be on a dives with hunters. So I'm not a tree-hugger. So long as the spear gun is pointed away from me and they eat their catch, I have no issue.

I've also been on a Carib dive where someone pulled a small (2') nurse shark from a hole by its tail. The result was blood and scars.

My normal dive group went to Grand Cayman while we went to Maui. They saw local GC dive operators (that are apparently approved by the government) killing lionfish. Without natural predators, lionfish will overrun the GC reef. While I don't like killing for the sake of killing I understand the governments decision. As told to me, the operators must follow a procedure to make the process as humane as possible. I've seen first hand what lionfish (NC), crown of thorns (multiple locations) and zebra mussels (Great Lakes) have done to their non-local habitats.

As a diver on a charter...Hunt or Don't touch! No in-between!

John

 

[KrisB]

John: what did HRA do that was illegal?

Were you in a Marine Life Conservation District such as Molokini or Honolua Bay?

Your identification of the lionfish and Crown of Thorns as relevant here shows that you don't really understand the issues...

 

[purcellj]

I pointed out the crown of thorns and lionfish issues as invasive species issues, since it was implied that tree-hugging behavior prevailed.
John

 

[H2ODoc]

On all of my last visits to the mainland, just before landing back in Hawaii the airplane plays a video on every screen, with sound on every speaker, explaining many things about Hawaii, including that sea turtles are both State and Federally protected in Hawaii.
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Interesting. I'll ask my wife if she recalls that video. We were on United, and either they didn't show it, or I was asleep with the earbuds in.

I *should* have been more aware of the local regs regarding turtles, but in a way, it's a moot point. I don't touch anything anyway.

I would probably be a good pre-dive meeting topic: local regs and sealife, etc.

 

[KrisB]

John: Crown of Thorns are actually not considered invasive. They simply have had their natural predators reduced. The Lionfish have been accidentally introduced by man to habitats where they have not natural predators. Very different situations.

You didn't answer my question about what HRA did that was illegal.

H2ODoc: every dive op I've been with (including when I've led dives) in Hawaii details that touching or harassing turtles is illegal and the penalty is substantial... just sayin'.

 

[H2ODoc]

H2ODoc: every dive op I've been with (including when I've led dives) in Hawaii details that touching or harassing turtles is illegal and the penalty is substantial... just sayin'.

Mine didn't. Just sayin'

One of the guys in our group pushed the turtle by his shell, and the DM (correctly) just about wrung the guy's neck. That diver was from Europe and seemed confused when he was chastised about the turtle.

Oh well. Dead horse is beaten. I'm still not touching anything.

 

[purcellj]

John: Crown of Thorns are actually not considered invasive.

Really? Invasive Species DB