Master scuba diver question

[ScubaFeenD]

You actually learn by doing. You could master each and every one of these skills with Basic Open Water Certification and experience, the best teacher.

To be clear, you can also die this way too. I agree that fish ID, etc dont make better divers, and only meaty courses should be allowed for MSD. However, some classes are great for a safer entry into territories that aren't familiar to a diver. Even the military doesn't say "here is the water, here is your air, go get some experience." Please dont misunderstand, I hold military divers in the highest regard. Nevertheless, experience alone is a ****ty teacher that will kill you without hesitation. Now guided experience is a different story.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I'd rethink that last statement. Sounds like right out of some book. If an OW diver is given a proper beginning and uses good judgment along with a systematic approach over time coupled with a good dose of reading the right material, there is no reaso nfor them to HAVE to take a class to expand their diving. At least on air. Nitrox and Trimix do require different certs and caves and wrecks have their own risks that are best covered in a formal class.( and even this is subject to some debate as I don't think Sheck took a cave class and Gary Gentile never did a wreck specialty) But dives to the recommended recreational limits, night dives, drift dives, etc can be done safely with experience as the teacher. Experience is not what kills people, lack of it and not paying attention to it's lessons are what kill people. Experience is actually the best teacher.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

I'd rethink that last statement. Sounds like right out of some book. If an OW diver is given a proper beginning and uses good judgment along with a systematic approach over time coupled with a good dose of reading the right material, there is no reaso nfor them to HAVE to take a class to expand their diving. At least on air. Nitrox and Trimix do require different certs and caves and wrecks have their own risks that are best covered in a formal class.( and even this is subject to some debate as I don't think Sheck took a cave class and Gary Gentile never did a wreck specialty) But dives to the recommended recreational limits, night dives, drift dives, etc can be done safely with experience as the teacher. Experience is not what kills people, lack of it and not paying attention to it's lessons are what kill people. Experience is actually the best teacher.

Some people are extraordinary and are able to, with other experiences in life, get along in activities on their own. However, I am not extraordinary, and I would argue many people are also not extraordinary. So, telling most people that experience alone is enough is wrong with the assumption that they will be able to use previous life experiences to excel without guidance. I maintain guided experience is the best choice, but I will modify that by adding: for most people.

 

[dhuskins]

The worst is when I read on websites from instructors that they advertise themselves as "master scuba diver instructors". What the heck does that mean?

After a PADI divemaster takes the Instructor Development Course and passes the Instructor's Exam, they are an OWSI (open water scuba instructor). If they take additional classes/or other processes, they can teach specialty classes and are therefore a specialty instructor.

A Master Scuba Diver Instructor is a PADI instructor that has the certification to teach at least five specialty courses AND has certified at least 25 students.

 

[boulderjohn]

After a PADI divemaster takes the Instructor Development Course and passes the Instructor's Exam, they are an OWSI (open water scuba instructor). If they take additional classes/or other processes, they can teach specialty classes and are therefore a specialty instructor.

A Master Scuba Diver Instructor is a PADI instructor that has the certification to teach at least five specialty courses AND has certified at least 25 students.

It is always good when going through a long and aged thread to assume that maybe a question that was asked long ago was perhaps answered long ago as well.

Diver0001 knows what a MSDT is because Diver0001 is a MSDT.

 

[Herk_Man]

I'd rethink that last statement. Sounds like right out of some book. If an OW diver is given a proper beginning and uses good judgment along with a systematic approach over time coupled with a good dose of reading the right material, there is no reaso nfor them to HAVE to take a class to expand their diving. At least on air. Nitrox and Trimix do require different certs and caves and wrecks have their own risks that are best covered in a formal class.( and even this is subject to some debate as I don't think Sheck took a cave class and Gary Gentile never did a wreck specialty) But dives to the recommended recreational limits, night dives, drift dives, etc can be done safely with experience as the teacher. Experience is not what kills people, lack of it and not paying attention to it's lessons are what kill people. Experience is actually the best teacher.

Some good points there Jim. I've previously admitted my sins of diving all over the world with a fake dive card and no certification. (I've since gotten certified.) But honestly, with the exception of a couple of things, what I learned from the divemaster that taught me how to dive (we were at war and alternative methods of learning were not available) did a very good job. But still, there was no classroom and no confined diving prior to my first plunge and descent down to 60' in the Gulf of Oman. But I spent A LOT of time what-iffing the situation and creating risk management scenarios to improve my chances of survival (much like we do when flying any mission.)

So to draw a parallel. As a basic certified diver, I could easily see myself deciding to go do a wreck dive without getting wreck training. But prior to doing something like that, I'd probably spend a lot of time analyzing risks, potential emergency scenarios, and setting very conservative limits on the dive.

But as others have stated, this is not for everyone and I don't think it should be. But I do get kind of upset when I see someone getting flamed on this board when they share an experience that is perfectly acceptable to their mental, physical, and judgemental capabilities.

Just my 2psi.

 

[divewithjay]

Nope.

It's just a badge. But you may be surprised how many people want to have that badge. A good friend of mine, despite us teasing him about it, was hell-bent on getting this "qualification" because in some deep recess in his mind he had decided it was some kind of a milestone that proved he was no longer a noob.


The worst is when I read on websites from instructors that they advertise themselves as "master scuba diver instructors". What the heck does that mean?

R..

It is an application once you meet the requirements. I think what you mean is they advertise themselves as "Master SCUBA Diver Trainers", I do, which simply means you have the instructor certifications to bring someone to the MSD level.

Some people look at it like a badge, others use it as a personal goal to achieve or a status symbol. In all my years of teaching PADI courses (and SSI for a while) I've found that most people do not say "I'm going to be a Master SCUBA Diver" then go get the certs, they usually get the certs over time and then apply for the rating because they want the card. The fee isn't really all that much either.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

"Master SCUBA Diver Trainer" feels misleading and disingenuous. As someone who, until recently, actually did mistake that for some special advanced trainer rating I dont think it should be advertised in that way. Perhaps saying that you can certify for Master SCUBA diver certification would be more transparent.

 

[boulderjohn]

"Master SCUBA Diver Trainer" feels misleading and disingenuous. As someone who, until recently, actually did mistake that for some special advanced trainer rating I dont think it should be advertised in that way. Perhaps saying that you can certify for Master SCUBA diver certification would be more transparent.

I think he wording of these terms in this thread is confusing, at least to me.

Master Scuba Diver Trainer is indeed an advanced training certification. It means the instructor has had the experience of certifying at least 25 divers and is certified to teach at least 5 specialty courses. The requirements in the PADI manual do not say anything at all about it meaning that "you have the instructor certifications to bring someone to the MSD level." I suppose you could interpret it that way if the instructor were to teach the potential MSD student 5 specialties for which he or she is qualified, but that would be an unusual coincidence. Someone applying for an MSD certification can have done those specialties with 5 different instructors, and that is frequently the case.

 

[TMHeimer]

"Master SCUBA Diver Trainer" feels misleading and disingenuous. As someone who, until recently, actually did mistake that for some special advanced trainer rating I dont think it should be advertised in that way. Perhaps saying that you can certify for Master SCUBA diver certification would be more transparent.

So you're saying just get rid of the title? Would there be a different title or just none? When I first heard of MSDT I immediately figured out what it meant.