Not really. AFAIK they have almost literally no centres in europe or africa/middle east area. Its confined to the USA and south-east asia.
Worldwide NAUI is tiny and in lots of areas doesn't exist at all.
Master.........Really?
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Not really. AFAIK they have almost literally no centres in europe or africa/middle east area. Its confined to the USA and south-east asia.
Worldwide NAUI is tiny and in lots of areas doesn't exist at all.
NAUI is indeed not-for profit -
And on an interesting note - the two original founders of PADI - Ralph Erickson and John Cronin, according to one story published by PADI, decided to form their own organisation after arranging a meeting with NAUI reps who subsequently failed to turn up. If I remember correctly, John Cronin was actually a NAUI member before he split.... One of life's little ironies...!
Cheers
C.
And on an interesting note - the two original founders of PADI - Ralph Erickson and John Cronin, according to one story published by PADI, decided to form their own organisation after arranging a meeting with NAUI reps who subsequently failed to turn up. If I remember correctly, John Cronin was actually a NAUI member before he split.... One of life's little ironies...!
Cheers
C.
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Erickson was a NAUI Instructor. The story (as I've heard it) is that Erickson could not get approval to run a NAUI ITC (back then they were Branch scheduled events for a bunch of people with a huge staff, that also required the approval of both the Branch Manager and the National Training Director rather than onesie/twosie with a small staff) and Erickson invented PADI as a print shop so that he could make a program go. Cronin was a local equipment rep who saw the profit of having a captive, wholly owned and controlled training agency.
Underdoc
Registered
Wow... a lot of vitriol in this thread. Obviously a few disenchanted individuals as there is bound to be in any area or activity. I have been diving since getting my c-card in 1974. I've done a lot of diving in that time. Interestingly(at least to me), is that I have also picked up a few degrees along the way. One of the things I found from that is that the more I learned, the less I felt I knew. If you have done this as well, you will know what I am talking about. In other words, as I learned more, I became more amazed at how much I still did not know.
As a diver, it is essential(back me up on this Scuba Board)to have as much technical information as possible to keep yourself safe and to be a dependable dive buddy. Whenever, I dive I like to feel safe with the other divers. I want to know they are not going to do anything to put themselves or me in danger, that they will act in a way that will help me if I get in trouble. It's the way new divers should feel diving with their Divemaster or Instructor. Remember that feeling? So anthing that encourages all of us to learn more, to become the dive buddy others can depend on is fair and appropriate. So while Master Scuba Diver may seem like a pretentious title, all divers know they can depend on this person for a high (not the highest) level of knowledge. More importantly, it does not matter how non-divers perceive the cert, it only matters how divers perceive it. Everyone who is experienced in diving knows what MSD means. Congratulations to all the agencies who use these little "tricks " to make us better divers. I have the MSD certification and it has taught me how much more there is to learn, even after 35 years, so I will keep taking more courses. Good luck to the rest of you guys who are already "naturally" informed.
:vintagediver:
As a diver, it is essential(back me up on this Scuba Board)to have as much technical information as possible to keep yourself safe and to be a dependable dive buddy. Whenever, I dive I like to feel safe with the other divers. I want to know they are not going to do anything to put themselves or me in danger, that they will act in a way that will help me if I get in trouble. It's the way new divers should feel diving with their Divemaster or Instructor. Remember that feeling? So anthing that encourages all of us to learn more, to become the dive buddy others can depend on is fair and appropriate. So while Master Scuba Diver may seem like a pretentious title, all divers know they can depend on this person for a high (not the highest) level of knowledge. More importantly, it does not matter how non-divers perceive the cert, it only matters how divers perceive it. Everyone who is experienced in diving knows what MSD means. Congratulations to all the agencies who use these little "tricks " to make us better divers. I have the MSD certification and it has taught me how much more there is to learn, even after 35 years, so I will keep taking more courses. Good luck to the rest of you guys who are already "naturally" informed.
:vintagediver:
I got OW certification in Nov 07, then AOW on my very next dive trip the following January. I set a goal to get MSD before my first year anniversary. I ended up with seven specialities, plus the Rescue Diver (and required emergency response) just days before that date, by which time I had logged 74 dives. I didn't consider myself an expert, but felt the courses (especially the rescue diver) helped me to anticipate and avoid problems, particularly when paired up with buddies whose idea of a buddy is "same day, same ocean". I've been on live-aboard and day boats with divers who claim to have hundreds or even thousands of dives, but I'd want to avoid as buddies. You know the ones I mean: the photographers who harass the creatures, kick the coral and sand, hold onto to coral, the "know-it-alls" who suck air like crazy and do really stupid things, like swim into small caves, go deep in the last half of the dive, ignore the divemaster, etc. MSD doesn't guarantee an expert diver, just someone who has taken the time (and expense) to be a better diver. By the way, you only need 60 dives to be a DM, with no specialities required!
Since this came around again (I had forgotten about it), I found a short version of the founding of PADI here. It's written by the son (Tom) of the founder of NAUI (Al Tillman) and interestingly doesn't mention anything about approval for an ITC (ICC) or anybody wanting a wholly owned and controlling agency. Actually seems rather complimentary in places. I wish other rivals could be so gentlemanly and less bitter about their differences.
And thanks to the last two posters - I agree that MSD doesn't necessarily turn diver into the greatest divers of all time, and I would say the same things about Master Instructors (yep, I can hear the snide remarks already, I'm over it). As I have repeatedly posted though, either certification does represent a significant amount of time, money and effort to achieve, and for those who have taken the time to apply what they have learned to achieve MSD or Master Diver or whatever - well done, congratulations!
Cheers
C.
And thanks to the last two posters - I agree that MSD doesn't necessarily turn diver into the greatest divers of all time, and I would say the same things about Master Instructors (yep, I can hear the snide remarks already, I'm over it). As I have repeatedly posted though, either certification does represent a significant amount of time, money and effort to achieve, and for those who have taken the time to apply what they have learned to achieve MSD or Master Diver or whatever - well done, congratulations!
Cheers
C.
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Tom's article reads:
"The night that the "time became right" was just after Cronin had driven from Chicago to Peoria, Illinois to give a lecture at a NAUI ICC. The trip was long, on bad roads, and takes three hours. When Cronin arrived to give his presentation he learned that the course had been cancelled. He was furious and the first thing he did when he returned to Chicago was to call Erickson and set up a time to meet."
"On the following Tuesday night, they met at Erickson's apartment and formulated the new agency. It would be the first "for-profit" certifying agency. They bantered about names and formulated the name PADI Professional Association of Diving Instructors. After Cronin's experience, the word Professional was his main requirement. Erickson had a background in mechanical drawing so he drew the PADI logo with help from a friend of his.'"
Which is likely a polite version of the story as I heard from an attendee of that first PADI ITC.
finbob
Contributor
Here is my two-pence worth...
At the age of 57, I started diving in Dec '09 after taking 2-years to conquer my fear of breathing underwater. Being a goal driven kinda guy, I set my eyes on achieving the MSD. I have completed the 5-required specialty courses, mine are: Nitrox, Nav, Buoyancy, Wreck and Deep. I hope to pluck up enough courage to complete the rescue diver course this summer - which is the primary reason why I have started going to the gym
I am thankful for the PADI goal - MSD. Although I do wish they would have called it Advanced rather than Master. I count myself a Junior with much to learn - that is what the 5-specialty courses have taught me - I have much to learn!
At the age of 57, I started diving in Dec '09 after taking 2-years to conquer my fear of breathing underwater. Being a goal driven kinda guy, I set my eyes on achieving the MSD. I have completed the 5-required specialty courses, mine are: Nitrox, Nav, Buoyancy, Wreck and Deep. I hope to pluck up enough courage to complete the rescue diver course this summer - which is the primary reason why I have started going to the gym
I am thankful for the PADI goal - MSD. Although I do wish they would have called it Advanced rather than Master. I count myself a Junior with much to learn - that is what the 5-specialty courses have taught me - I have much to learn!
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coolhandcarter
Registered
The certification level Master SCUBA Diver is for those divers who for the most part do not want to teach. Just because you do not wish to teach and have to pay yearly dues and go to updates doesn't mean that you should't get a cool title.
As for the standards, I agree that they should be stricter however the 50 dive minimum is usually reached well before a diver reaches the 5 specialties and rescue diver certifications. Even in Hawaii where people dive every weekend I have had people take 3 years and accumulate in the range of 130-150 dives before the apply to become a Master SCUBA Diver.
More over you only need 60 dives to be a Divemaster and 100 to be an Instructor. As a Master SCUBA Diver you have a cool title and it maybe buys you some latitude from the DM on your next trip. But as a Divemaster with one 10 more dives (if you do the minimum) is responsible for leading people on tours and fixing problems and handling emergencies underwater as they arise. That I think is the larger issue.
As for the standards, I agree that they should be stricter however the 50 dive minimum is usually reached well before a diver reaches the 5 specialties and rescue diver certifications. Even in Hawaii where people dive every weekend I have had people take 3 years and accumulate in the range of 130-150 dives before the apply to become a Master SCUBA Diver.
More over you only need 60 dives to be a Divemaster and 100 to be an Instructor. As a Master SCUBA Diver you have a cool title and it maybe buys you some latitude from the DM on your next trip. But as a Divemaster with one 10 more dives (if you do the minimum) is responsible for leading people on tours and fixing problems and handling emergencies underwater as they arise. That I think is the larger issue.
finbob
Contributor
coolhandcarter:
Since the DM is in such a responsible position, I wonder if it would be beneficial to the diving community if DM were ranked by experience?
As an example, those with less than 300 dives as a divemaster: DM-I. Those less than 500 dives as a divemaster: DM-II. Those over 500 dives as a divemaster: DM-III. At least that would communicate the experience level of the person leading your dive.
As for an instructor, I would suggest one would need DM II status as a prerequisite.
Since the DM is in such a responsible position, I wonder if it would be beneficial to the diving community if DM were ranked by experience?
As an example, those with less than 300 dives as a divemaster: DM-I. Those less than 500 dives as a divemaster: DM-II. Those over 500 dives as a divemaster: DM-III. At least that would communicate the experience level of the person leading your dive.
As for an instructor, I would suggest one would need DM II status as a prerequisite.
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