Mask on forehead = diver in distress?

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I have to agree with Lamont, if getting water in the eyes, nose or mouth is causing dstress than MOF is not the issue, comfort in the water is and maybe diving is not that persons sport. The comfort in the water should be there before the person even begins dive training. A lot of people know how to swim but are not really comfortable in the water.
 
I've just gotten used to putting my mask on my forehead but flipped around so the strap is across my forehead and the mask around back. I either do that or just pull the mask down around my neck.

Doesn't make much difference to me.

I of course got the reason from our instructors that you received from the LDS.
 
J.R.:
:rofl3: Well... I *did* make the distinction "unless its in the appropriate "in use" position"... :) ... but perhaps we should call it MOFH (Mask on Fore Head) v MOF (Mask on Face) :D
Nah, tradition is something we MOF people care a lot about, MOF will always be MOF to us. 'Mask on Face'... sheesh! Nope, can't change it! :)

@Howarde & Walter: That's one pic extraordinaire, if you ask me!

@Nemrod: LOL! Got you there, haven't I? :)
 
I was told by my instructor that you should keep your mask on when in the water to stop your face being pummeled by waves. Makes perfect sense here where we have pretty rough conditions. That is the same reason I ALWAYS have either my snorkel or my reg in my mouth. Quite honestly, I don't want a mouth or face full of sea water. I have had enough of mask flooding!

Oh, I was trained under PADI and he said that their rules are more stringent but are good guide lines for novice divers.
 
What this entire discussion is missing is a sense of history and where the whole mask on forehead thing came from. The problem here is that diving grew out first from California. On the west coast we have big surf, almost all the time. It is a rare day that you can wade out on a beach dive with your mask on your forehead and still have it to make the dive (never such a day at Monastery!). The same hold true for exiting the water. So folks learned rather fast to not put their mask on their forehead. This became a cultural thing, was taught in all the west coast courses and as diving spread from L.A. County to YMCA to NAUI to PADI it was carried forward. As long as there was community consensus (which there was for many decades, it became the first every kool-aid thing) that you did not put your mask on your forehead all was fine. When you saw someone push their mask up, the only reasonable explanation was that they were in trouble and you rushed to help.

A separate line of diving evolution came out of the Florida caves. There was little crossover between “open water” divers and cave divers and many things evolved separately. The mask on forehead was one of them, always having a snorkel was another, not entering the water with the regulator in your mouth is a third, etc. When you’re sitting by the side of a Florida sinkhole getting ready to dive there is no reason not to put your mask on your forehead (what … is a ‘gator gonna eat it?). So all was fine, as long as the two communities stayed basically separate. But, as first Nitrox, and then Tech created areas of common interest and concern, one of the most noticeable differences in practice between divers whose tradition came out of the rough Pacific Ocean and divers who’s challenges were less driven by environmental perturbation and more by lack of direct access to air was the whole mask thing.

So were do we stand today? Clearly, without a community-wide agreement that we do not put our masks on our foreheads the whole thing is meaningless. As long as a sizeable segment of the diving community does not want to sign on to this compact, it doesn’t work. Yes, almost every diver who is in trouble has their mask on their forehead, but we can no longer say any diver who has a mask on his or her forehead is in trouble.

I am very uncomfortable with a mask on my forehead and now, as I try adjusting to a neck-strap auxiliary second stage, I’m a bit uncomfortable with my mask around my neck. We are treating this question as a bit of a joke, and I understand why, but it is an issue that could do with some quiet reasoning and the development of a consensus opinion.
 
howard.jpg
 
:lol: Great photo Howarde!

I just realized - if it were raining, MOF would actually be a great tool to keep water out of your eyes! Certainly better than wearing mask backwards. :D
 
CoolTech:
You don't really believe the BS you just posted, do you?
Do you have an alternate explanation? Don't just bash, please share.
 
In faireness, I don't know whether this story is accurate or not... wasn't diving in CA at the time (got certified in the cold rough waters off of Pensacola in early winter), however:

Thalassamania:
Clearly, without a community-wide agreement that we do not put our masks on our foreheads the whole thing is meaningless. As long as a sizeable segment of the diving community does not want to sign on to this compact, it doesn’t work.


As a "diving rule"... yep... yer' right. It doesn't, however, lessen any validity that MOF *may* be an indicator and one should take a second look.

Yes, almost every diver who is in trouble has their mask on their forehead, but we can no longer say any diver who has a mask on his or her forehead is in trouble.

"... we can *no longer* say that" is a problem phrase for me... It implies that we were once able to... I would argue that we have NEVER been able say that.

We are treating this question as a bit of a joke, and I understand why, but it is an issue that could do with some quiet reasoning and the development of a consensus opinion.

On this I'm going to disagree... it *is* treated with some levity... but, and I'll refer to an earlier post I put up... the issue to me is that, as a signal it's a very poor one at best. Intertwined among the levity IS "quiet reasoning"... some levity is good... keeps people from feeding each other to giant killer moray eels..

I have issues with MOF for a variety of reasons:

1: People reflexively go MOF for a variety of reasons. As noted earlier... distress might be one of them... but it is far from the only one...

2: I seriously doubt that placing one's mask on one's forehead would attract the attention of ANYBODY other than another scuba diver who subscribes to the 'convention'... MOF is not a roadside flare... IMHO I think signals should be clear and understandable to any who might see them... a signal that requires *understanding* to interpret is a poor signal unless one doesn't wish to be understood.

3: IF it is rough choppy water... it would be difficult to see vs. the waving of an arm, use of a whistle or other method of signaling. One should teach people in trouble to ATTRACT ATTENTION... not just rely on putting their mask on their face as a signal.

4: IF it is rough and choppy water... or if the person in distress over reacts... there IS the possibility that the mask may not stay on the forehead but be lost anyway. (If there is a big concern about non-distressed divers loosing their masks this way I don't see any magic that would keep the mask of a distressed diver on their forehead in a distressed situation... ) Can you tell at a glance, in "rough and choppy water" that a diver with their mask behind their head... or tucked under their chin, whether the person has a mask on or not? What good is a distress signal if it doesn't stick around???

5: While MOF *may* be in indicator of distress... it is probably one of the weakest... I wouldn't assess a diver's condition by that alone. As far as 'checking' if you see a MOF... cool... I and those I dive with like to check on their buddies regularly anyway... MOF or not... ("Hey... doin' ok over there?")...

6: During night or low vis situations ya' probably can't see the mask anyway... what good is a distress signal if it can't be seen or heard???

... and with regard to the 'fogging issue'... isn't a mask as likely to fog tucked under your chin (you're still breathing down on it)... or possibly behind your head???

As I have stated before... IF you are my DM or Instructor and wish it to be so in your environment... I'll gladly follow your standard... but to define this as a *rule* or to try to read more into it than is really there doesn't seem, at least to me... to be doing anybody any good.

With respect...
J.R.
 

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