Marketing: Are we ok, or do we need help?

[Wookie]

I am loving this. But if my goal is to make $500 profit, regardless of my expenses (it takes more time to collect 50 cents a thousand times), I really don't care where I get it from.....

 

[RJP]

2. Normally I don't like FREE as it has ZERO value. But to get a person to take the time to 'try' something they would not normally do and weren't thinking of trying, I'd try free. Just like a sample I get in the mail for a new product I wasn't thinking of buying. I always try the new product. If I find value in it I buy again. If not is because the product didn't work or was answering a question I wasn't asking.

Since almost everybody doesn't 'need' to dive, getting someone to try needs to be based on an emotional feeling that they will feel "X" if they dive and miss out on "X" if the pass it up. It damn near impossible to describe the feeling of diving without diving.

What is your idea to increase the base?

As mentioned - either in this thread or the "why don't more people take up diving thread - people like me don't "KNOW" the answers, but we know how to FIND the answers.

There are several crazy-effective market research techniques that have been proven over and over again to determine the real barriers and motivators the impact a potential customer's behavior.

- What is it that people REALLY want to buy?
- What is it that REALLY stands in the way of them buying it?
- What can you tell them about your product/service to convince them that it will provide what they are looking for?
- What can you tell them about your product to overcome their barriers?
- How can you modify and vary those things in order to charge a profit-maximize price?

Here's my favorite example of a client/agency who really figured out what people want to buy... and offered them that! Care to guess what they were REALLY selling?

[video=youtube;GOLXnkbfEuo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOLXnkbfEuo[/video]

The campaign won my former agency many awards (long before I got there) but the one that stands out as testament to the power of the campaign was the Effie Award, which is given for advertising effectiveness (as opposed to simply for being "creative") The campaign has been credited with reversing a decades-long slide in oatmeal sales, and it's effects are still in evidence today... well beyond the one product. Without that campaign, you wouldn't see entire grocery store aisles lined with 20 different brands of hot breakfast products... or oatmeal bars and granola bars actually. Even much of the growth of "healthy" dry cereals (ostensibly the competition at the time) can be traced to Wilford Brimley.

So, what was Quaker Oats really selling? Specifically. And to whom? And why Wilford Brimley?

 

[Edward3c]

Wrong.

1.) Getting people to try scuba diving may be a really good idea
2.) Doing it "for free" is a really bad idea

Why?



On an absolute basis, this might be true. On a relative basis, this is way off the mark. Offering "free trial" of anything actually has an inverse effect on the likelihood that any individual who tries the product will become an actual/repeat purchaser.

Ever go to Costco when they are handing out "free samples"?
Ever try a free sample of something you know for certain you have no intention of buying?
Would you have paid 5 cents for a sample of something you have no intention of ever buying?*

This is why you will never (I shouldn't say never) see a "Free Trial" coupon for a consumer product. We'll launch a new cereal with "$1 off" or "Buy one, get one free" or a rebate or even a money-back guarantee. But you will generally never see an offer of a free trial.

*Note, in reality I'm not referring to "merchandising" promotions like trying a cookie at Costco; just using this as an example of consumer behavior when things are "free"



What is the "value" (real and/or perceived) of something that you offer for free?

Back in the days when diving was 'growing' the club I was in stopped offering free Try Dives, but offered a reduced joining fee equal to the Try Dive charge.

Our conversion rate went from 1 in 20 to 3 in 10. In addition we benefited from the extra income from those whom diving wasn't for.

 

[0002s]

.

So, what was Quaker Oats really selling? Specifically. And to whom? And why Wilford Brimley?

Speed/time in the morning
Single moms or working parents
He's your trusted grandfather/dad

I'm not asking for the solution, but your idea. What's your 'Brimley' concept?

 

[RJP]

I think I'm willing to use the Quaker Oats case study to show you the power of what we do as advertisers... if that's what you really want.

Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. Um, uh, I mean what advertising is. You have to see it for yourself.

You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.

Remember -- all I am offering is the truth, nothing more.

But first I need to go shovel the driveway!

 

[DiveNav]

This is why I said "profit" - which would factor in GM and cost of sales ....

I did not express myself clearly. I wanted to say Gross Margin Percentage.

If I sell a $1500 dive computer that costs me $1000, my profit is $500 and my GM% for this product is 33.3% and probably took me an hour or so to close the sale.
If I sell a $5 App (100 times) which has a cost of goods of $0, my profit is $5 (X 100 times), my GM% for this product is 100% and the sale happened while I was doing something completely unrelated.

So, your $500 profit question does not make any sense unless it is put in the right context (what kind of product you are selling).

Alberto (aka eDiver)

PS.
Most of the time, in the P&L, Sales & Marketing expenses are not included in the Product GM% calculations as they are not considered "production costs" and are accounted separately

 

[RJP]

I did not express myself clearly. I wanted to say Gross Margin Percentage.

If I sell a $1500 dive computer that costs me $1000, my profit is $500 and my GM% for this product is 33.3% and probably took me an hour or so to close the sale.
If I sell a $5 App (100 times) which has a cost of goods of $0, my profit is $5 (X 100 times), my GM% for this product is 100% and the sale happened while I was doing something completely unrelated.

So, your $500 profit question does not make any sense unless it is put in the right context (what kind of product you are selling).

Alberto (aka eDiver)

PS.
Most of the time, in the P&L, Sales & Marketing expenses are not included in the Product GM% calculations as they are not considered "production costs" and are accounted separately

All other things considered equal - time, cost of goods, selling expenses, etc. everything else. It's a hypothertical Alberto... by definition it doesn't make any sense.

:d

 

[Trace Malinowski]

So, what was Quaker Oats really selling? Specifically. And to whom? And why Wilford Brimley?

I'll take a guess. I've had zero advertising education, but since I'm interested in knowing the answer, I'll take a shot.

Wilfred Brimley was like everyone's favorite and most trusted grandfather right? The target audience was the nuclear family, but probably mostly mothers. Mothers were no longer fixing family breakfasts since many women had careers and little time. Quaker Oats was selling convenience. "Moms you don't have to feel guilty for not making the kind of wholesome nutritious family breakfasts your mothers and grandmothers did. Just put some nutritious and tasty Quaker Oats in the microwave, push the button, and experience the satisfaction that your are being a good mom. It's the right thing to do." I'm guessing though that divorced moms and dads can both feel like hitting the button on some oatmeal would somehow bring some sort of old-fashioned all is right with the world feeling to breakfast. And, to husbands and kids with the message that in 90 seconds they can help mom by making themselves breakfast. College kids would also want fast cheap food and would become the next group getting married & having kids and know Quaker Oats was a cinch to make.

Selling - guilt-free convenience?
Audience - moms, but also dads, kids and next generation of parents?
Brimley - trustworthy grandfather figure; the grandfather we want and want to be?

What's the answer?

 

[drrich2]

Glad I'm not the only one that didn't know the answer! What I got from the video:

1.) People want to do 'the right thing.' Better yet if it's fast, easy, cheap and socially endorsed/reinforced.

2.) People want to do what's good for their health (if laziness and gluttony don't get in the way; no insult, I'm pretty chunky myself). From what I understand oatmeal is considered fairly healthy to eat?

3.) It lets you feel you're 'doing something' about your health, without being too put out (the 'right thing to do' might be Jenny Craig and regular gym membership, but who wants to ponder that?).

4.) The old guy seems like a symbolic older father/grandpa figure giving paternalistic approval; it'd make your old Dad happy.

5.) In age of controversy and complications, it's something simple and good. 'Down home.'

Richard.

 

[Wookie]

What's the answer?

It's marketing. The answer is what you need it to be to buy the product. Julie came here to sell a specific product to a couple of dive businesses. She presented it in terms like she was going to offer the "industry" a pathway to success that we haven't enjoyed in a long while, and never really did, if truth be told. If I had never heard of SEO, or have someone who works on it as a part of his job, I might bite and hire her services. I've been offered those services by consultants too numerous to count, at wildly varying prices, BTW. I've also tried advertising with Googleads and other "paid SEO" services, and found the results to be dissapointing.

But that's not the point. The point is that Ray is a Marketer. He knows what makes us tick, and he knows that it's different for every one of us in the business. What makes you (Trace) comfortable isn't what makes me comfortable isn't what makes Ray comfortable isn't what makes Julie comfortable. I refuse to advertise in print media. I am uncomfortable doing so. Aggressor fleet spends tens of thousands at minimum advertising in print. I have a relatively large web presence, I'm on the right boards for my clients. Aggressor Fleet has a very small presence. Aggressor Fleet's client is a very different person than I am trying to attract. Their client will be unhappy with me, and I would probably be unhappy with them.

I don't eat Quaker Oats. Some parts of a pine tree may be edible, but I don't eat that part, either. I am not a marketers dream, except that I can sing any jingle from the 70's, 80's, and 90's, which is exactly what a marketer wants. He wants the image to be stuck in our head, so if they happen to be out of Cheerio's (why do I eat Cheerio's? Partly because "It's shown to lower cholesterol") maybe I'll try Quaker Oats (also shown to lower cholesterol). If I can't see the USA in a Chevrolet (Because they don't have a Silverado in the color I want) then I'll go buy a Ford (because Quality is Job 1). A marketer's job is not to get you to buy something (although that's the preferable end result), a marketer's job is to stick an image in your head. An image you will remember for the next 30 years. A salesman gets you to buy ads in print media, gets you to buy a Chevy instead of a Ford, gets you to go to PSAI instead of MDEA or PADI, gets you to buy ScubaPro instead of US Divers. A Marketer puts the image in your head that you need to dive, drive, and eat a warm, nutritious breakfast with Grandpa instead of cold cereal again.

A marketer for the scuba "industry" would make the scuba jingle pop into our heads when we think "leisure activity" or "Caribbean cruise" or any of a number of thoughts. It's what DEMA tries to do, they just do it very poorly.

As an edit, Ray's marketing efforts are working well. We poor fools are hanging on his every word, hoping we're right, and hoping we're gonna get a gold star from him. Get it? He's marketing, not selling.