Great for who exactly?
Marketing: Are we ok, or do we need help?
- Thread starter Julieofthesea
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Great for who exactly?
Hmm... ya think?
If only there were someone who sold scuba gear on line...
Let me google that for you
Julie:
I am your target demographic in the dive industry (suffice to say I'm in RJP's model from page 1 or 2). If you created the best SEO model that provided me all the information I needed to make the best informed decisions on the new gear and or service/trips, I would freely take 100% of this information and choose the best goods and or services. Then I would search reviews from various boardss to validate my decision. Finally I would do a google search to find the cheapest price. LeisureScubaAmazonEbayChina.com would win unless, I needed it today or the manufacture was smart enough to hold its distribution to a pricing model for it's product. Oh and I don't mind paying local sales tax.
WHY?
Because my time is very valuable and I've done all the work that a Manufacture's Rep who hasn't trained the LDS sales people should have done. Why, because the dive industry manufactures through multiple forms of distribution (internet and or everybody carries it distribution philosophy) has taken the profit out of the goods and services all in attempt to fight for the same 2%-4% market share that vacillates based on economic conditions. The industry is racing to zero based on price. They've trained me to view their goods and services as a commodity. This will only cause more consolidation, less innovation and ultimately STILL only 2%-4% diving.
My LDSs doesn't add value anymore, they don't have the profit either. What they do add is untrained teenagers who work for free fills and dives to tell me that they don't stock what I want to see but they can easily get it for me in a few weeks, if I want to pay. Or the manufacture is on perma-backorder because they didn't order enough at the show to stock. Or my L'big box'DS that has a bunch of untrained first job adults who stand around hating their job and have about as much knowledge as the LDS teenagers. At least the L'big box'DS has stuff to try on. It also does't matter that I 'like' the people at either type of store. What matters is they bring me knowledge of their experiences with the products or services I'm purchasing. If I like them after that...bonus. (I'm generalizing here as not all LDS employees are untrained and carry no stock, but I've experienced my fare share)
I don't know your SEO business model past the 22 pages of this post, but it sounds like you're attempting to out google...google.
If you want to market something to the industry I'd try cracking the nut of "how to increase the number of people trying out diving"
To RJP's point in another post. The industries problem is TIME and the competition is how to reduce the feeling that it's a large commitment of TIME for no tangible return until well after you've committed the TIME and $. This is a sport that requires you to invest considerable amounts of TIME and $ to try it before you've even decided if you're going to like it. This is the reason the statics of divers doesn't change and only vacillates based on the economy and increase in discretionary income. Listen to the sales pitch to somebody that has never done this. First you'll need to buy a course, mask, fins, snorkel and spend as little as an entire weekend getting a basic certification. But, you've not even decided if you'll like it let alone be able to do it. In todays world of limited TIME, this isn't a huge selling point and even worse when you look at who's selling to and how. Think about this. For a few bucks and borrowing a friend 'insert gear' I can try out just about any sport without any real commitment of TIME and $.
1. Once you make the plunge (pun intended) into diving you're now faced with multiple certifications (MORE TIME and GEAR) and you're still not sure if you really like it as you've only done two (if you're lucky) OW dives. This is compounded if you're doing this alone and not with a friend (preferably with some experience). You wonder why there is a retention issue past, "I got certified for that Cozumel trip' diver.
2. Now you're a certified diver. You've decided to continue diving past the Cozumel trip. Now you need a full day to dive and or an entire trip planned around diving. There is MORE TIME. Not counting that I need to be ON TIME to the boat. This isn't like golf or mountain biking or running where I can blow it off or start a few hours later. There is a boat that is leaving and a deposit that's been paid.
3. Finally there is the TIME it takes to clean your gear up and put it away after a long and exhausting day. Diving isn't a 'put the muddy bike in the garage' and deal with it tomorrow sport.
4. I also have to have a buddy who is into diving as well. Now my buddy also faces 1, 2, 3. In a every increasing world of tweets and FBs where human interaction in limited, going on a blind buddy date isn't what we do anymore.
Diving is ONE BIG TIME CONSUMER. Along with that, it's not cheap. Wonder why more people aren't taking it up?
I would suggest that you look to get the dive industry to get the manufactures to pony up the gear and the LDS to pony up the air fills and get people introduced to diving FOR FREE so they can determine if the TIME is worth investing. Once you get a person to experience what it feels like you will increase the # of people who want to take the risk of TIME and $ to go to the next step. The industry needs to PAY the LDS to spend the time and committee to targeting the LDS local markets (think boy/girls clubs, private schools, universities, churches, senior living communities and so on) EXCITE THEM, show them it's cool. Let them come to their own conclusion why they want to dive based on the feeling it gives them and then take them to the next level.
It doesn't take a certification to put someone on a hooka and let them look at a pool bottom or a fish or two in 5' of water to get interested in the wonderful feeling you get from diving. It doesn't take certification to get someone into a snorkel to see if they can go down 10 feet and clear their ears. It doesn't take certification to demonstrate someone how easy the basic skills are in a pool and let them try to clear their mask. Teach them that this isn't as hard as they believe or isn't USN BUDS training or YES you really can breath under water. They will VALUE THIS and thus spend their TIME and $ with the Manufactures who were kind enough to provide test equipment and the LDS who showed them how to enjoy the sport. If you sink it, they will come. (oh that was bad) If you can't get them into the water it makes NO DIFFERENCE how much they would, could, or should spend (let alone how they find it on the web) as they will be spending THEIR LEISURE TIME and DISCRETIONARY INCOME elsewhere.
If the 2%-4% is increased then ALL those involved in the diving industry will benefit.
Based on my level of understanding of sales and marketing from the dive industry, I don't see any of them willing to put their money were their mouth is as the newest spit curved dragon tailed fin with the dodecagon shaped mask and pink BC dump handles can take more of the 2%-4% pie thus making more profit when made in China and marketed thru LeisureScubaAmazonEbay.com.
Good luck and I hope you find your 'sweet spot' and get your concept off the ground.
I am your target demographic in the dive industry (suffice to say I'm in RJP's model from page 1 or 2). If you created the best SEO model that provided me all the information I needed to make the best informed decisions on the new gear and or service/trips, I would freely take 100% of this information and choose the best goods and or services. Then I would search reviews from various boardss to validate my decision. Finally I would do a google search to find the cheapest price. LeisureScubaAmazonEbayChina.com would win unless, I needed it today or the manufacture was smart enough to hold its distribution to a pricing model for it's product. Oh and I don't mind paying local sales tax.
WHY?
Because my time is very valuable and I've done all the work that a Manufacture's Rep who hasn't trained the LDS sales people should have done. Why, because the dive industry manufactures through multiple forms of distribution (internet and or everybody carries it distribution philosophy) has taken the profit out of the goods and services all in attempt to fight for the same 2%-4% market share that vacillates based on economic conditions. The industry is racing to zero based on price. They've trained me to view their goods and services as a commodity. This will only cause more consolidation, less innovation and ultimately STILL only 2%-4% diving.
My LDSs doesn't add value anymore, they don't have the profit either. What they do add is untrained teenagers who work for free fills and dives to tell me that they don't stock what I want to see but they can easily get it for me in a few weeks, if I want to pay. Or the manufacture is on perma-backorder because they didn't order enough at the show to stock. Or my L'big box'DS that has a bunch of untrained first job adults who stand around hating their job and have about as much knowledge as the LDS teenagers. At least the L'big box'DS has stuff to try on. It also does't matter that I 'like' the people at either type of store. What matters is they bring me knowledge of their experiences with the products or services I'm purchasing. If I like them after that...bonus. (I'm generalizing here as not all LDS employees are untrained and carry no stock, but I've experienced my fare share)
I don't know your SEO business model past the 22 pages of this post, but it sounds like you're attempting to out google...google.
If you want to market something to the industry I'd try cracking the nut of "how to increase the number of people trying out diving"
To RJP's point in another post. The industries problem is TIME and the competition is how to reduce the feeling that it's a large commitment of TIME for no tangible return until well after you've committed the TIME and $. This is a sport that requires you to invest considerable amounts of TIME and $ to try it before you've even decided if you're going to like it. This is the reason the statics of divers doesn't change and only vacillates based on the economy and increase in discretionary income. Listen to the sales pitch to somebody that has never done this. First you'll need to buy a course, mask, fins, snorkel and spend as little as an entire weekend getting a basic certification. But, you've not even decided if you'll like it let alone be able to do it. In todays world of limited TIME, this isn't a huge selling point and even worse when you look at who's selling to and how. Think about this. For a few bucks and borrowing a friend 'insert gear' I can try out just about any sport without any real commitment of TIME and $.
1. Once you make the plunge (pun intended) into diving you're now faced with multiple certifications (MORE TIME and GEAR) and you're still not sure if you really like it as you've only done two (if you're lucky) OW dives. This is compounded if you're doing this alone and not with a friend (preferably with some experience). You wonder why there is a retention issue past, "I got certified for that Cozumel trip' diver.
2. Now you're a certified diver. You've decided to continue diving past the Cozumel trip. Now you need a full day to dive and or an entire trip planned around diving. There is MORE TIME. Not counting that I need to be ON TIME to the boat. This isn't like golf or mountain biking or running where I can blow it off or start a few hours later. There is a boat that is leaving and a deposit that's been paid.
3. Finally there is the TIME it takes to clean your gear up and put it away after a long and exhausting day. Diving isn't a 'put the muddy bike in the garage' and deal with it tomorrow sport.
4. I also have to have a buddy who is into diving as well. Now my buddy also faces 1, 2, 3. In a every increasing world of tweets and FBs where human interaction in limited, going on a blind buddy date isn't what we do anymore.
Diving is ONE BIG TIME CONSUMER. Along with that, it's not cheap. Wonder why more people aren't taking it up?
I would suggest that you look to get the dive industry to get the manufactures to pony up the gear and the LDS to pony up the air fills and get people introduced to diving FOR FREE so they can determine if the TIME is worth investing. Once you get a person to experience what it feels like you will increase the # of people who want to take the risk of TIME and $ to go to the next step. The industry needs to PAY the LDS to spend the time and committee to targeting the LDS local markets (think boy/girls clubs, private schools, universities, churches, senior living communities and so on) EXCITE THEM, show them it's cool. Let them come to their own conclusion why they want to dive based on the feeling it gives them and then take them to the next level.
It doesn't take a certification to put someone on a hooka and let them look at a pool bottom or a fish or two in 5' of water to get interested in the wonderful feeling you get from diving. It doesn't take certification to get someone into a snorkel to see if they can go down 10 feet and clear their ears. It doesn't take certification to demonstrate someone how easy the basic skills are in a pool and let them try to clear their mask. Teach them that this isn't as hard as they believe or isn't USN BUDS training or YES you really can breath under water. They will VALUE THIS and thus spend their TIME and $ with the Manufactures who were kind enough to provide test equipment and the LDS who showed them how to enjoy the sport. If you sink it, they will come. (oh that was bad) If you can't get them into the water it makes NO DIFFERENCE how much they would, could, or should spend (let alone how they find it on the web) as they will be spending THEIR LEISURE TIME and DISCRETIONARY INCOME elsewhere.
If the 2%-4% is increased then ALL those involved in the diving industry will benefit.
Based on my level of understanding of sales and marketing from the dive industry, I don't see any of them willing to put their money were their mouth is as the newest spit curved dragon tailed fin with the dodecagon shaped mask and pink BC dump handles can take more of the 2%-4% pie thus making more profit when made in China and marketed thru LeisureScubaAmazonEbay.com.
Good luck and I hope you find your 'sweet spot' and get your concept off the ground.
Right On .... TIME
My (mountain) bike is always muddy as I try to use it every other day or so .....
Today I woke up at 6:00 AM .... I worked few hours on a new project .... and now I need to stretch a bit. Should I pack the gear, drive down to the Ocean, get a quick (~60 min) relaxing dive, drive back, unpack and clean gear? ... or should I just put my riding gear on, grab the muddy bike and go for a 60 minutes ride?
The "FUN" time will be the same for both activities (60 minutes). But the overhead is way off for diving :depressed:
Guess where I am going now ..... see you at 11:30
Very nice!
Yeah.....just imagine what it would be like if we had a bunch of online retailers where people could go to buy gear.
That would be great! Yay!
Oh, wait!
We already have a bunch of them, and have for quite a few years. There's more to having an internet business than just getting your business at the top of a Google search.
Everybody is selling something.
OP
Julieofthesea
Registered
There's more to having an internet business than just getting your business at the top of a Google search.
Everybody is selling something.
That's actually the point of doing business online.
Of course it is; and those businesses are doing that.
I haven't read through all 22 pages of this, but it seems that you are merely offering a way for.....
..............wouldn't it be great if there was some magical business that offered all the gear, and all the expertise....in one place? Let me guide you to the top of the first Google search page.
I'm not real clear on what you are selling that isn't already being offered by the other online retailers out there?
Dive Right In Scuba
Dive Gear Express
Northeast Scuba Supply
Cave Adventures
These are just the ones that I have done business with, and have been very happy with their service.
There are plenty of others that are very well known:
Scuba Toys
Beaver Divers
Extreme Exposure
Leisure Pro
Are you selling something that isn't already being offered by these retailers? The ones I have done business with seem to have a pretty good handle on it.
Or is this only about selling the top Google hit to other shops?
I gather that your goal in your venture is to offer marketing services to existing shops, correct?
My point is that there should be something that isn't already being done, very well, buy the above listed examples.
Hopefully you are actually attempting to sell something to shops beyond just a Google hit. Something more substantive.
I could hire someone easily that could move me to the top of a search engine. Just a thought....I'm sure you have other aspects in mind, and have already thought them through.
I realize that you are just gathering information in this thread, so those are just one Man's thoughts.
Best of luck to you in your venture. I hope you find your niche.
Cheers,
Mitch
I haven't read through all 22 pages of this, but it seems that you are merely offering a way for.....
..............wouldn't it be great if there was some magical business that offered all the gear, and all the expertise....in one place? Let me guide you to the top of the first Google search page.
I'm not real clear on what you are selling that isn't already being offered by the other online retailers out there?
Dive Right In Scuba
Dive Gear Express
Northeast Scuba Supply
Cave Adventures
These are just the ones that I have done business with, and have been very happy with their service.
There are plenty of others that are very well known:
Scuba Toys
Beaver Divers
Extreme Exposure
Leisure Pro
Are you selling something that isn't already being offered by these retailers? The ones I have done business with seem to have a pretty good handle on it.
Or is this only about selling the top Google hit to other shops?
I gather that your goal in your venture is to offer marketing services to existing shops, correct?
My point is that there should be something that isn't already being done, very well, buy the above listed examples.
Hopefully you are actually attempting to sell something to shops beyond just a Google hit. Something more substantive.
I could hire someone easily that could move me to the top of a search engine. Just a thought....I'm sure you have other aspects in mind, and have already thought them through.
I realize that you are just gathering information in this thread, so those are just one Man's thoughts.
Best of luck to you in your venture. I hope you find your niche.
Cheers,
Mitch
OP
Julieofthesea
Registered
Thank you ooo2s. I appreciate your insight.
You're saying time and money are a huge barrier to getting involvement in the sport. If there were a way to make things less expensive and convenient you'd have more customers.
And you're afraid if you educate your customers on the best gear, they could go some place else to buy it. In other words, how can the LDSs (David) compete online with LeisureAmazon.com (Goliath)?
I've heard this from LDSs owners every where... back when I was a rep for DAN... 5 something years ago. That's why I was so excited when I learned about Content Marketing. In a sense, I guess you could say it's about out Googling Google. It's a way to change the game and out smart the big guys. I think a LDS can use the internet to leverage what sets them apart. Quality education, human interaction and better customer service.
The hard part for me is finding the fist adapter.
I'm like this crazy guy dancing on the hill looking for my first follower.
[video=youtube;fW8amMCVAJQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW8amMCVAJQ[/video]
Nobody is going to want to dance with me if I don't finish my website first. So I'm going to work on that for a while. Trying to solve all the problems of the industry on Scubaboard takes quite a bit of time, eh?
You're saying time and money are a huge barrier to getting involvement in the sport. If there were a way to make things less expensive and convenient you'd have more customers.
And you're afraid if you educate your customers on the best gear, they could go some place else to buy it. In other words, how can the LDSs (David) compete online with LeisureAmazon.com (Goliath)?
I've heard this from LDSs owners every where... back when I was a rep for DAN... 5 something years ago. That's why I was so excited when I learned about Content Marketing. In a sense, I guess you could say it's about out Googling Google. It's a way to change the game and out smart the big guys. I think a LDS can use the internet to leverage what sets them apart. Quality education, human interaction and better customer service.
The hard part for me is finding the fist adapter.
I'm like this crazy guy dancing on the hill looking for my first follower.
[video=youtube;fW8amMCVAJQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW8amMCVAJQ[/video]
Nobody is going to want to dance with me if I don't finish my website first. So I'm going to work on that for a while. Trying to solve all the problems of the industry on Scubaboard takes quite a bit of time, eh?
Actually, what Julie wants to do is help the people selling gear online optimize their sites so they get better search engine results. The idea makes sense if you're XYZ-scuba.com and want to get better listing so you steal some business from...
Dive Right In Scuba
Dive Gear Express
Northeast Scuba Supply
Cave Adventures
Scuba Toys
Beaver Divers
Extreme Exposure
Leisure Pro
Scuba.com
Etc,
Etc,
Etc.
So, in Julie's defense, she's not looking to "help the industry" but rather "help companies within the constraints of the current industry." Which is a fine and admirable objective. Frankly, I'm probably most responsible for taking this thread off track by making it about "helping the industry grow" rather than "helping some companies gain share."
That said, as 0002s has pointed out above, if XYZ-scuba.com is not willing to beat the price of most of the companies listed above... better search results won't help much.
And what if XYZ-scuba is willing to undercut other web retailers? Well, good for them, good for their customers, and probably bad for the industry as a whole. The last thing the industry as a whole needs is even more frugal, more cost-conscious customers. I say this as a marketer... not as a diver.
Also, as a marketer, I would submit that the best way to help an individual business is to figure out TWO things:
1.) How to get more qualified customers to walk through the door - whether terrestrial or virtual.
2.) How to get those customers to pay AS MUCH as possible for goods and services... rather than AS LITTLE as possible.
If your goal is to run a profitable scuba business, would you rather make $5 in profit on each of a 100 customers or $500 in profit from one customer? Why?
OP
Julieofthesea
Registered
except change "people selling gear online" to "scuba diving businesses." Selling gear online is a tiny part of my recipe here. It's about marketing your whole business brand with useful educational content.
In my own defense, by helping a scuba business, it helps the industry and sport as a whole. I'm best buds with folks at DEMA, PADI and DAN and various manufactures. They have showed us what they will do to help the industry. Look at what they have done and you'll know what to expect to get. We already know their limits. We have received all the help they are going to give. It's up to the business to be a rock star and I believe the internet is the perfect platform for making a scuba-business-owner-rock-star.
agreed.
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