Marketing: Are we ok, or do we need help?

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I get the impression that I would enjoy diving from your boat; from many of your posts.

I also get the impression that RJP is pretty good at what he does for a living.......I'm awaiting that answer too.
I figured he'll be finished with that driveway pretty soon.
 
I'll take a guess. I've had zero advertising education, but since I'm interested in knowing the answer, I'll take a shot.

Wilfred Brimley was like everyone's favorite and most trusted grandfather right? The target audience was the nuclear family, but probably mostly mothers. Mothers were no longer fixing family breakfasts since many women had careers and little time. Quaker Oats was selling convenience. "Moms you don't have to feel guilty for not making the kind of wholesome nutritious family breakfasts your mothers and grandmothers did. Just put some nutritious and tasty Quaker Oats in the microwave, push the button, and experience the satisfaction that your are being a good mom. It's the right thing to do." I'm guessing though that divorced moms and dads can both feel like hitting the button on some oatmeal would somehow bring some sort of old-fashioned all is right with the world feeling to breakfast. And, to husbands and kids with the message that in 90 seconds they can help mom by making themselves breakfast. College kids would also want fast cheap food and would become the next group getting married & having kids and know Quaker Oats was a cinch to make.

Selling - guilt-free convenience?
Audience - moms, but also dads, kids and next generation of parents?
Brimley - trustworthy grandfather figure; the grandfather we want and want to be?

What's the answer?

You've got some of the right ingredients. The devil's in the details, though. And the details - and how we got there - makes the whole thing so much more deliciously evil. In particular "the process" is really more important than "the answer" anyway... because it's not about whether scuba diving needs a "Wilfred Brimley" to reverse the decade-long decline. :D

Actually spent some time yesterday on a detailed writeup, but sledding with the kids - and then a bottle of wine - distracted me from finishing.

Today is "pinewood derby" work with my son, but I'll throw something up later.

Ray
 
I thought about this some more while I went out for the mail and 5 guys. I love 5 guys, BTW. They love me too, the way their burgers seem to pile up on my hips. Anyway, put in simpler terms, a marketer looks around (hopefully while being well paid) and sees a need that folks have. Maybe he can't see a need, so he has to create one. Ray's company may be hired by General Mills to sell more Quaker Oats. How to sell more Quaker Oats? Well, you need to find out what the consumer needs, what itch the consumer has to scratch, how to make the consumer feel good about themselves. That's what a marketer does. Once the marketer (usually a consultant to a corporation, not an employee) creates that need, provides the itch, figures out why people feel bad about themselves, his job is mostly done. All he has to do is plant the idea in everyone's head that product a will fill the need/scratch the itch/make you feel good.

The sales staff then goes out and provides that product. They place it on the right shelf at the grocery store (everyone knows how grocery stores work, right? They don't make their money selling groceries), they buy product placement in movies, they do face to face sales. They need to get on it, because when Kellogg's figures out that General Mills figured out what folks want, and they figure out what it is for themselves, they're going to go all out to catch up. Since they aren't going to be able to compete on an even basis (why buy Sam Elliot oatmeal when you can have the real thing-wait. That's Coke) they are going to have to have a different product that fulfills the same need (Special K Nourish Cranberry Almond, anyone?) but is "better".

As I see it, the scuba industry is desperate for some marketing. Not the consumers, but the industry itself. We need to feel good about ourselves. We have an itch that needs scratching. WE HAVE A NEED!!!! I have a budget to get my needs taken care of. No, not that. I know what I need. I sure don't see anyone looking to scratch the itch, but there are a lot of folks out there trying to sell me something....
 
Diving does need an "image" boost.
It's not my thing, but I'm objective enough to see it.......perhaps it's sidemount.

We have all seen the long lists of rationalizations that people make for it.
But I really think most people just to it because it looks cool, and people have fun with it.

The dive industry certainly needs a big injection of something cool.
I agree, there is a need for marketing and an image boost.

RJP....the Neo of the Diving world Matrix!
 
I think some good first steps for the industry would be to stop going against market trends (eg e-commerce - Aqualung vs LeisurePro) and stop underestimating the intelligence of their end consumers. For instance, they try to shroud regulator maintenance in a veil of apparent complexity that tells you it is impossible to service your own reg and ONLY professionals should be able to do it, else you die. Give me the option to pay somebody else if I don't feel like doing it myself, but don't tell me I'm not qualified or that I can't become qualified to do it myself. Tactics like these might initially work with some newbies, but those newbies quickly realize that the industry treats them in a less than dignified manner. Even being a newbie, as tragically-comedic as it is, Ray's Monty Python skit is just too common of an occurrence.

It is a sad situation. For many end consumers, instructors, divemasters, AND shop owners this is a broken business model that does not work for ANY of the parties mentioned. End consumers go to the shop to buy a mask and they find it is listed at $125. Let's say the end consumer buys it, but as he delves deeper into this sport, he finds LeisurePro offers the same mask for $23. How does he feel at that moment of discovery? I don't think I need to argue too much for the point that instructors and divemasters will not be able to live a life of luxury with those careers alone. Traditional shop owners have to buy expensive inventory that does not turn around quickly. Why are we so masochistic to try to keep the broken model unchanged and to stay together in these disfunctional relationships we call "scuba industry"?

Me...? For most of my diving life, I've been mostly independent of the traditional "scuba industry". I think the tipical scuba aficionado will be better served moving towards this independency as fast as possible. If this premise is at least partially true, then it is no surprise that the "scuba industry" is in decline.
 
What part of the industry is declining, and what part is on the rise?
The scuba world is not just one big happy family anymore. It's broken up now into many categories and interests.
What part of it do people think needs to be propped up? and why?

Do we really need 15 companies making regulators?
Do we really need 9 different brands of backplates? How many tech divers are there or people using backplates in the entire population of divers?
Look how many brands and styles of BC's are out there being made and how are they all selling enough to make it worth it?

Why is it sooooo important to make sure every gear company, every dive store, every dive operator, every online store, and every resort stays in business,.... and every reef destroyer keeps diving?????

Is it just to keep the money flowing?
Is that what diving is all about now, the money?

Why does diving need a bailout. Shouldn't they be subject to the natural laws of supply and demand?
If they screwed up for whatever reason shouldn't they have to suffer the consequences? And for the ones that survive maybe there's a good lesson to be learned.
 
What part of the industry is declining, and what part is on the rise?
The scuba world is not just one big happy family anymore. It's broken up now into many categories and interests.
What part of it do people think needs to be propped up? and why?

Do we really need 15 companies making regulators?
Do we really need 9 different brands of backplates? How many tech divers are there or people using backplates in the entire population of divers?
Look how many brands and styles of BC's are out there being made and how are they all selling enough to make it worth it?

Why is it sooooo important to make sure every gear company, every dive store, every dive operator, every online store, and every resort stays in business,.... and every reef destroyer keeps diving?????

Is it just to keep the money flowing?
Is that what diving is all about now, the money?

Why does diving need a bailout. Shouldn't they be subject to the natural laws of supply and demand?
If they screwed up for whatever reason shouldn't they have to suffer the consequences? And for the ones that survive maybe there's a good lesson to be learned.

It appears that all segments are flat or declining, although if you read the quarterly Kline report, it's rainbows and unicorns. The scuba industry was never a big, happy family. No one ever loved their neighbor. It's always been the spearos vs. the photogs vs the shell collectors vs the fish huggers. The split fin against the jet fin against the Force Fin. Propped up? None needs propping up. This isn't Kalifornia, you know.

Are 15 regulator companies and 9 backplate companies making a profit? Is that profit enough to satisfy the shareholders? Then who cares how many folks are making backplates and regulators? Pick the one you want and don't worry about the rest.

No one is suggesting that every gear company, dive store, dive operator, online store, and every resort stay in business. Where a need is perceived, someone will fill that need. When it is no longer needed, no one will fill it any more. It seems that you have a need to improve folks scuba skills. First part of marketing, identify a need. Now, you should look around to see if a product fills the need. If one does, go ahead and buy it. If none does, you have a choice to get your need taken care of by forming a company to fill the need in the hopes that enough other folks have the same need, or change your need. That's called market research.

I would love to invite people to come diving for free, but that doesn't pay the insurance or the slip fee. Of course it's about the money. Without money, I can't pay the slip fee, or buy beer.

Diving does not need a bailout. No one here has suggested anything like that. Folks in the Dive Industry need some direction, someone to do market research, someone to figure out what the needs of the consumer of leisure activities are, and guide us in that direction. Market research does not always have a happy ending. It may well be determined that the cost of running a dive boat/dive shop/manufacturing gear has risen to the point that the consumer just won't bear the cost any more.
 
During these two dive marketing threads I've seen surprisingly little about what these posters would actually do about it. Instead I see a lot of marketing jargon, statistics, etc. but not a lot about actual ideas for solutions.

I know I'm doing my part, at least I try. I talk to people every day about whether they've ever considered scuba diving. I have friends who I've actually gotten into diving that never would have considered it otherwise.
If every diver on earth just got one person to take it up the diver population would double (another useless statistic).
It's easy to sit around and bitch, but what are you guys doing about it?
It's easy to complain that there's no this or that anymore and it's dying. Well who were the ones who got it going and how did they do it?
The people that staerted it are gone now. If you want it you need to step up and do something yourselves because nobody is going to do it for you. You are the divers, you should be the ones trying to grow your sport. I ask you, who else do you think is responsible to make it happen?
I started a dive club where I live because the other ones were dying out and I didn't like the way they were run. It's now the biggest club in the area and the dive turnouts are bigger than any other clubs ever had in history. The secret, no dues and no fees. Just show up and dive. It was a place for new divers to meet and do a shore dive. If I didn't start the club nobody would have. There is absolutely no reason why each and every one of those members couldn't have done the exact same thing, but they didn't. But they sure enjoyed the benefits of having a local dive club and all the friendships that grew from it! If that club never started there's a good chance many of those people wouldn't have dove locally, and they sure as hell wouldn't have gotten to know each other as dive buddies and friends.
In fact, my two best dive buddies and best friends are products from that dive club, and I have a whole circle of friends because of that dive club.

Why don't you:
Start a dive club and have each person who joins ask two of their non certified threads to go to a meeting and have some beer and pizza. You never know, maybe they will get into diving based on what they see and hear.
Go door to door to one hundred houses and take a survey on scuba diving and ask people if they have ever considered it.

Dive shops: When was the last time you ran some radio ads?
Dive boats: Same question.

Video freaks, why don't you produce a short film about diving and enter it in a film festival?
Get creative, there are hundreds of ways to do your part.
Bitching on Scubaboard isn't going to do a damn thing.
 
During these two dive marketing threads I've seen surprisingly little about what these posters would actually do about it. Instead I see a lot of marketing jargon, statistics, etc. but not a lot about actual ideas for solutions.

I'd love to do my part. As mentioned several times. "Doing something about it" in my world starts with the genuine, honest-to-goodness. proven professional process that will for-certain do something about it.

Someone else can buy pizza or start a dive club or go door-to-door.

Me? I do this sort of thing for a living. I'll do it right. But I'll need a few months and about $275,000 (plus expenses) just to get this thing off the ground...

[Little smiley "I'm just kidding" emoticon intentionally omitted]

Speed/time in the morning
Single moms or working parents
He's your trusted grandfather/dad

I'm not asking for the solution, but your idea. What's your 'Brimley' concept?

I know you want the answer. And I know, and can appreciate, that you think that I think that I have the answer and that I'm just not telling you. The secret of a good marketing/ad guy's success is to be 100% confident in the fact that you don't know the answer. Not even "in our gut" not even "on a hunch." That's not to say that we don't ever have "a hunch" but that we simply remain open to idea that it's probably wrong. And it mostly is. And it's often EXACTLY wrong.

Below in bold headings are three questions that every marketer must ask. We spend days/weeks/months answering these. Boiling it down below belies that fact to the point of making some of it sound obvious. It’s not. Plus, we usually pursue multiple paths at the same time. So I'm going to meander a bit and provide a level of depth to try to give a feel for what it's really like. We often take this sort of "narrative story telling" approach at work, because it's required in order uncover and convey the nuances that a strategy or campaign can leverage.

What market do we want to be in?


Don’t look at the product! Look at the customer. When, where, how, why can they use your product. Needs to be big enough to be commercially attractive, but specific enough to be exploited. What market is Quaker Instant Oatmeal in? We don’t ask ourselves in a meeting, we do market research to find out from the customer where our best opportunity is.

Instant Oatmeal market:
Current market; way too small, growing slowly.

Oatmeal market: Somewhat larger, but declining. Perhaps get people who eat oatmeal to eat it more often? More times per week? Not enough potential.

Hot breakfast market:
Larger, growth opportunity; Oatmeal better for you than pancakes, waffles, etc? Pretty obvious, but could there be something better/bigger?

Hot meal market: very big; Huge potential if we try “it’s not just for breakfast anymore?” (Nope - customers were confused by oatmeal for lunch or dinner, too much work/time/money needed to change this perception. Plus risk alienating current breakfast users.)

Breakfast market: much larger than just “hot” segment; some work/time/money needed to break out of “Oatmeal market” but tremendous growth if we can. (Plus, this also includes the first three markets above, so whatever we do will keep us true to our current customer base.)

Who is our optimal target audience?


OK, if we are in the “Breakfast market” then our target audience is obviously people who eat breakfast, right? Wrong, for so many reasons. But the main reason is that’s not a TARGET audience… that’s everyone in the market. There is no product that is marketed to “everyone” in the market. We’ll spend months hashing this one out, based on being big enough to warrant going after, ability to motivate to action, ability to efficiently reach them with our message and many other factors. One of the main ones is that the target audience must be well-defined based not just on demographics but also on a specific need they have, or mindset they hold. We need that last part in order to exploit them! So who is our target audience?

People who eat breakfast: Adults (men and women) and kids (boys and girls) are way too big to target. Plus… kids don’t have money and don’t buy food. And tough to develop a single message for all, and woefully inefficient to buy media to reach “ladies and gentlemen and children of all ages.”

Adults who eat breakfast:
Men and women; still too general demographically, and too small in some respects. Lots of men and women don’t eat breakfast… but some of those people do buy/specify breakfast purchases for others.

Adults who eat and/or purchase breakfast products:
Too diverse to develop a single message that could resonate with a male college student, a mother of three, and an 85yo widow. Plus too diverse to reach from a media standpoint, as those people watch different TV shows, magazines, etc. Sure, we could cut by age, gender, etc. But even then the likelihood of success is low.

Parents who purchase/specify breakfast products:
big enough to be attractive, but still too diverse; men and women have different motivators in general, and there are so many subsets of each gender. Then there’s the whole media difficulty/inefficiency thing.

Mothers who purchase/specify breakfast products: getting interesting. We don’t lose much kicking men out, since the wife/mother does most of the breakfast buying and preparing.

WE’RE ALMOST THERE! The problem/opportunity now is to find the specific segment within this target audience that we are really going to target everything we do and say directly at. This all needs to be done based on two things: finding a large enough segment that has a compelling problem that our product can solve.

So what segments of mothers do we have, and what problems do they have that we can solve? This stage is probably the most critical, because everything is based on what we find here: message, creative, media spend, etc. And the research to find out the “problem they have” is the key.

As I said above… it is so important to NOT just pick what you think the answer and test it. Doing so will doom you to failure. The research we do in these situations is specifically designed to start completely with the customer. Big picture. What are their hopes and dreams? In fact we don’t even talk about the product. We don’t even tell them we’re talking about oatmeal… or breakfast… or food. The people the research was done with din’t know why they were there. Didn’t know they were be talked to because they were women… or because they were parents… or because they were moms.

We interview women and see what they say. Listen for commonalities. Listen for what they say. For what they don’t say. Questions like: What did you like to do as a child? What did you want to be when you grew up? What do you do now? Why? Do you like that? Why? Why not? What makes you happy? What makes you unhappy? What things stand in the way of you being happier? What would/could you do if those barriers to happiness were removed? What would that mean to you? What would THAT mean to you? And what would THAT mean to you? And then what?

We call this “insight mining” because we’re literally digging for insights. We’re listening to the customer tell us THEIR story. They lead the discussion, we don’t. (This is very different than what is traditionally done, where the marketer asks the customer what they think about OUR story.) After you do enough of these interviews you find patterns “Hey, there’s a lot of woman who think X, and are frustrated by Y, and would really like Z to happen.” And none of it has anything to do with food, or breakfast, or oatmeal, much less Quaker Oats.

Incredibly hard to convey how this happens and what it feels like when you do it because it truly is magical. What we find is an incredible insight that is not only powerful, but that uniquely defines a large audience segment. The insight into “the problem the customer has that we can solve” is nuanced, but those of you who swerved around it in posts above will hopefully appreciate the nuance and the power of it. I won’t go through the dozens of permutations here, but hopefully cutting to the chase will be illuminating.

The segment in question was the Married Working Mom (MWM) who, not surprisingly, stood in sharp contrast to non-working moms in many ways. What was VERY surprising was the sharp difference between the MWM and the Working Single Mom (WSM). So much different that even the order of words in those segment names (MWM and SWM) is actually purposely different. Note the order of which word is used to modify “mom” in their minds!

You see, Working Single-Moms do NOT identify themselves as “working moms” even though 99% of them work. It’s actually almost redundant in their minds. They define themselves – and their problems – based on their marital status. On the other hand, Married Working-Moms don’t define themselves in terms of their marital status… they define themselves (and their problems) in terms of their employment status. And we’re still not to the good part yet! (We still haven’t found out what their biggest problem is, and how Quaker Oats can solve it. )

What is the biggest problem a Married Working Mom faces? Long story short… guilt. Guilt of going to work instead of “being there for her kids.” (Trace got to this point – good work!) And deeper down the rabbit hole.

But even THAT’S not the most interesting part! What is interesting is that, in general, the Working Single-Mom does not have the same guilt. Why not? Because society understands that the Single-Mom has no choice about working. She is not judged by society, or her family, or herself for going to work. (Yes, she is judged for other things.) So it’s sort of OK that she gives Timmy a Pop-Tart, drops him at the bus stop, and drives to work.

The Married Working Mom is different. She is judged by society, by herself, and her family because she chooses to work instead of attending to her children’s needs. And, frankly the agency could be off to the races from here playing on her guilt. (And it's not just about breakfast.) Great strategy, but the creative team still doesn’t have enough to go on in terms of what to put in the ad. We could have all her neighbors judging her. Have her husband giving her grief, have her conscious bugging her, etc. But luckily, the rabbit hole goes even deeper!

You see, many/most MWM actually feel like they don’t have a choice about working. For whatever reason, their family requires two incomes. And in fact, the Married Working-Mom has a bit of deeper issue than being judged over her choice to work. She has a nagging feeling that she is also being judged for... her choice of husband! If he had a better job… she wouldn’t have to work! Do all MWM’s feel this universally? No. But very often, and very deep, and very hurtful. And even those that didn’t feel it themselves… identified with it.

Of course she knows her husband is a good guy, and she sees how hard he works. ("But if he DID make more money...") And she doesn’t really care what society thinks. ("And it would be great if I didn't have to work...") But there is someone who’s been judging her husband every step of the way… her father!

When she came home with the engagement ring years ago… her mom said “I’m so happy for you!” Dad, on the other hand, even if he liked the guy said “That’s great honey… are you sure he’s the one?”

And then they got married and moved into that small apartment/condo, which she felt was being judged by her dad. Her dad, who was able to buy a house when he and her mom got married.

And then she got pregnant… and there was a lot of discussion about whether she was going to stay home after the baby came. And even if no-one said anything… she knew what dad was probably thinking. After all, her dad made enough money that her mom didn’t work after she and her brother came along. (Her brother’s wife doesn’t work either… come to think of it.) But her husband doesn’t make enough to support her and the kids in whatever lifestyle they think they need/want.

So what is the root problem that the Married Working Mom has that Quaker Oats can solve?

She needs her father’s approval. (0002s got close, good work; but didn't answer the "Why" Wilford Brimley question.) Not just approval for being a working mom, but approval for every decision she’s made in her life, from the boyfriends in high-school, to her choice of a husband years ago, right up to going to work this morning. And every weekday morning, as she quite literally is forced to re-visit - everyday - her choice to go to work instead of taking the time to prepare (and clean up after) a “hot, nutritious meal” for her children.

So her problem is not just a need for speedy, convenient breakfast. It’s a need for approval. And now we know that we can take that approval that she craves and wrap it up perfectly and embody it in approval from her father.

What is our message?


If you’ve done all the stuff above right… the message and the campaign writes itself!

Wouldn’t it be great if even just once she made a decision that her father agreed with? If he could accept a choice that she made, without feeling like he was judging her. If just once, after she decided to do something her father simply said “It’s the right thing to do.”

Wait… someone write that down! And get me Wilford Brimley on the phone!

callout-about-quaker-history-1987.sflb.ashx


So now, every time she prepares Quaker Instant Oatmeal, she gets approval from her father!

Only by honing the market context, identifying the target audience, understanding their emotional drivers, and delivering a compelling message were they able to do what they did. And by going at it the way they did, the found the most powerful message that hit the tight target on the head, but also resonated with the single mom, and dads, and really anyone else who is pressed for time at breakfast. But they never, ever, ever, in a million years would have come up with that insight and campaign if they hadn’t kept going deeper down the rabbit hole.

I know this was very long. And I hope I was able to do justice to the magic that undepins what Pat McGrath and the other folks at Jordan McGrath Case & Partners did. (Or Jordan Case McGrath & Partners, depending on when you worked there. Gene Case, by the way, is generally acknowledged as being one of the men that "Mad Men" characters are based on.)

It’s not as easy as “tell the world what you think they need to know about your product’s features.” There’s a process. The process works. And without the process…
  • You probably don’t really know what market you’re in.
  • You probably don’t really know who your customer is.
  • You probably don’t really know what you’re customer wants.
  • You probably don’t really know what you’re selling.
  • You probably don’t really know how to sell it.
  • You probably are not really going to be successful.

Has anyone in the "scuba diving industry" asked these questions about their brand? About the industry as a whole?

Is anyone in the industry interested in the answers to these questions? Is the industry as a whole interested in the answers to these question? Because I know a guy...

:cool2:

[video=youtube;el66jnuItYc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el66jnuItYc[/video]
 
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Oatmeal market: Somewhat larger, but declining. Perhaps get people who eat oatmeal to eat it more often? More times per week? Not enough potential.

You could also make it tasty, interesting and convienient.

If McDonald's drive throughs offered a squeeze tube of oatmeal mixed with Captain Crunch and some milk, they could clean up on the AM rush hour traffic and sell tons of oatmeal.

Right now, it's too boring and too hard to eat while driving. Make it tasty and easy and it will fly out the door.

Another reason oatmeal is declining is that it's unnecessarily expensive. Oats are about 10 cents/pound in bushel units. There's no reason it should be $1.25+/pound in the store.
 

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