Marketing: Are we ok, or do we need help?

[Trace Malinowski]

+1 on the painting.

I wouldn't want DIR standardization for cave diving. In fact, the more I dove caves the more I realized that "dive the cave" made more sense than "doing it right."

 

[TSandM]

Sigh . . . whether you like the standardization or not, you have to admit that GUE has done something nobody else is doing in the dive industry, to my knowledge -- they are GROWING.

The three cave instructors in Mexico cast around a while back on how to make a real living teaching cave diving. They went with GUE. They now charge three times what anybody else does in the area, and are busy as long-tailed cats in a room full of rocking chairs.

There is very, very clearly a market for intense, high quality training at a premium price.

There is a declining market for meh training at a cheap price.

Hmm.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Awkward and too cluttered? How so?
Excessive gear choice?...it's actually pretty minimal, not a lot of bells and whistles at all.
Being in a horizontal position?....as opposed to what? Being vertical? or perhaps a 45 degree angle?

I must be missing a lot of aspects of this, because I fail to see your points here.

"There's an ass for every seat." I hope everyone finds a seat that their ass is happy with.

BTW: I checked out your website. You oil painting is awesome! I love the old school striping and lettering also...Very bad ass!!

Too much hose length - don't like long hoses. They are way too long and unecessary in open water where I will never be taking someone out single file. I think it's a bad idea to have anything wrapped around my neck. I also use a snorkel when the need arises and GUE doesn't advocate their use.
Don't like the cords on can lights. Can lights are not necessary for open water IMO. I like small hand helds and the ones made these days are fine.
The can is bulky.
All the DIR people I've seen always have pockets on their thies stuffed with stuff. Pockets sticking out create drag and diminish the sleek slipstream theory. I've never needed to store that much stuff anywhere, I don't even know what they have or why. They look like their wear army fatigues.
Redundant buoyancy by always having to use a drysuit in all conditions, drysuits are not efficient underwater and also diminish slipstream.
Heavy jet fins are good (I have a pair) but there are other fins that work as well or better for other people and DIR doesn't allow for that.
I don't always want to dive with a buddy, buddies can be extra bulk and reduce my streamlining (cramp my style) DIR stresses to never lose your buddy so that means always have a buddy.
Staying flat is good when I want to stay flat and have a reason, but dynamic style means I can orient myself with the contour of the typography and zip and zoom over the terrain like a fighter jet with legs back within the slipstream. I like to point my whole body towards the direction of travel and cruise around like a freediver on scuba - that's how I do it.. The DIR skydiver position means I must elevator dive and I'm sorry I just can't do it, way too clunky and trudgy for me.
I also like to porpoise kick and toe flip kick both non DIR compliant kicks.
Finally, I like to dive with no BC and that is a DIR felony, against all rules and against all DIR better judgment.
Others will probably disagree with me too. That's OK, it creates tension. Tension and opposition is a must for any good debate.

Thanks for checking out my artwork.
I am one of the last hand sign painters and freehand pinstripers around.

Sorry about letting you know how I fell about DIR, nothing personal.

---------- Post added December 30th, 2013 at 12:24 AM ----------

Sigh . . . whether you like the standardization or not, you have to admit that GUE has done something nobody else is doing in the dive industry, to my knowledge -- they are GROWING.

The three cave instructors in Mexico cast around a while back on how to make a real living teaching cave diving. They went with GUE. They now charge three times what anybody else does in the area, and are busy as long-tailed cats in a room full of rocking chairs.

There is very, very clearly a market for intense, high quality training at a premium price.

There is a declining market for meh training at a cheap price.

Hmm.

I have my differences with the GUE protocal, but they definitely are better than the current standard, that's for sure.
They are doing something right.

 

[RJP]

With the "GUE vs PADI" thing we've swerved back into the underlying issue in the dive industry, that the industry is typified by one constituency trying to steal marketshare at the expense of another constituency. In general, this cannot help the industry as a whole. Specifically to the GUE vs PADI thing, it would be likely to significantly damage the industry from a commercial standpoint, as raising the cost and rigor of dive training will clearly raise the barrier to entry among potential new divers, and increase the attrition rate among current divers.

 

[Edward3c]

I'm been following this thread with interest.

The majority of posts appear to be about getting people into training and the continued development to higher and higher levels.

I went diving yesterday with a group of people I don't know. Was the talk of the training we had done? NO. It was of the DIVING we had done and what we were doing to do – nothing to do with agency (the group held qualifications from at least 5 agencies).

The conditions:

• 2m swell rolling in from the Atlantic - following a series of storms over the previous 2 weeks.
• Air temp 4'C
• Wall – bottoms 50m +.
• Small boat dive – de-kit in water.
• Vis – expected to be 2m max (we actually got 3m at 20-25m, but 1m above 10m)
• DSMB required to be deployed.

Some pics



This is what UK diving is about.

Kind regards

 

[Trace Malinowski]

When I was a kid, the divers I met never really thought about C-cards other than to ask one another if we remembered to bring them on our way to get air fills. Then, a strange thing crept into the sport. A girl I began to date who was an instructor wouldn't take a wreck diving class from a respected educator in NJ because he was NAUI. She simply said, "I'm a 'PADI baby'." Divers have become PADI Divers, GUE Divers, etc. Obviously great marketing on the part of the agencies.

 

[Edward3c]

When I was a kid, the divers I met never really thought about C-cards other than to ask one another if we remembered to bring them on our way to get air fills. Then, a strange thing crept into the sport. A girl I began to date who was an instructor wouldn't take a wreck diving class from a respected educator in NJ because he was NAUI. She simply said, "I'm a 'PADI baby'." Divers have become PADI Divers, GUE Divers, etc. Obviously great marketing on the part of the agencies.

This is something I find strange. An instructor having to do a course to teach something that is elementary in diving. Its like saying you can't teach shore, drift or night diving if you haven't done a course. These should all be part of normal diver training.

Kind regards

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Look what I found! Did someone already post this?

http://www.outdoorfoundation.org/pdf/ResearchParticipation2013.pdf

 

[RJP]

Look what I found! Did someone already post this?

http://www.outdoorfoundation.org/pdf/ResearchParticipation2013.pdf

I was pulling data from a large consumer sentiment/purchase database I can access at work. Similar sort of stuff. Interesting.

 

[Hawkwood]

Totally agree with you, Richard. The thing is that most everyone understands eating. Few people understand diving and often don't know that there is a choice when signing up for OW. I have nothing against PADI personally. Last night, I tried to watch PADI videos with an open mind to see if any could be a good addition to any PSAI courses since we are allowed to use other materials in class. But, I couldn't deal with the Charlie Chaplin wanna-be dude and the "happy meal" script. I'm sure some people like that. I never liked Chaplin in motion pictures. I like my courses serious and scientific. What I think we need is a way of overcoming the "flaming archway" marketing to reach beyond the fast food training and find people who want to be a different kind of diver again.

So, were those the old videos? The program has been revised, including all new material.