Marketing: Are we ok, or do we need help?

[Eric Sedletzky]

The may be another option, but like all new businesses concepts, there is high risk.

I have only taken one recreational dive class since 1962 that was worth spit. It cost well over $1000 (all-in) and lasted 4½ full days plus hotel and food — the Performance Freediving Course. I am sure legions of people told them that it could never work. Now there are several competitors. These divers go around the country teaching the classes as well as out of their home-base in Florida. They have status gained through competitive freediving, and a shipload of satisfied customers.

What if a small group of accomplished instructors banded together and offered a really intensive high-end course? Instead of traveling, pick a place with good but demanding diving conditions. Students would end up with a pile of standard merit badges so they could get air fills plus a wall-hanger certificate.

If marketed properly, I can see parents willing to pay for their teenager to attend the “best”, divers disillusioned by the current training mill, and people willing to pay for the prestige.

There’s the rub. In order to be prestigious you have to craft, develop, and earn a reputation. Factor in that there will be graduates that die diving and how the reputation will survive. For some people, part of the allure will be the high price. Charge a butt-load of money but make sure everyone feels they got great value. Imagine a crazy eye-watering price and triple it. Cater to the adventure sector and do everything possible to discourage the casual vacation diver.

Give customers some unique experiences like a deep chamber dives and a taste of surface supplied diving. Perhaps you could work a deal with a commercial diving school to access facilities. Their incentive is the possibility of getting a few recreational to commercial converts. Expose them to how rebreathers work and to understand the principals (without qualifying them to use them). Let them experience 15 minutes on a DPV and whatever else you can. People will learn a lot of indirectly related skills at the same time.

I hope someone finds the “formula” and makes lots of money from the school and lecture circuit. The lasting contribution to society will be to help reverse the terrible direction dive training is going. At this rate, there will be government intervention in US dive training.

There already is an organization doing what you're describing, it's GUE.
However their training is not for every recreational diver, they're "project divers" and their gear choices and training is geared towards that end.

 

[Akimbo]

There already is an organization doing what you're describing, it's GUE.
However their training is not for every recreational diver, they're "project divers" and their gear choices and training is geared towards that end.

I'm describing a course that takes non-divers from the beginning. It could also take OW and AOW divers but would start from scratch so they learn all the physics, physiology, safety, and equipment in depth and integrated. No indoctrination, just understanding.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I'm describing a course that takes non-divers from the beginning. It could also take OW and AOW divers but would start from scratch so they learn all the physics, physiology, safety, and equipment in depth and integrated. No indoctrination, just understanding.

Well maybe an instructor with a nothing to lose and everything to gain mentality can run a course based on how they used to do it years ago.
6-7 Weeks of training, 400 yd swims before each class, good old military style harrassment, all kinds of underwater don and doff drills, in depth theory and table use combined with use of all the modern stuff we use these days like computers and the other recreational gear sold in todays dive shops.
Include everything in AOW and rescue (but do better versions)
I'm not a huge fan of a lot of the new gear but that is the current standard so it would have to be part of it if a student wanted to use it.
I have a feeling though that after such a class a lot of that gear would be replaced once they see some of the drawbacks and pifalls of modern mainstream gear.

There might just be a market; a small group of dedicated divers that would line up for that. I know I would just to see what it was like back then.
It would have to be expensive like over $1500 or 2K
Advertise it as the absolute best recreational training available.

Something like an extreme specialty scuba would be very small just like the Performance Freediving Course, but people are taking it, it doesn't need to be big.
I've heard nothing but great things about PFD and plan to take it myself.
I could see a performance scuba diving version doing well too.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

GUE training benefits students, but to be a GUE instructor means the ROI still puts you in the "labor of love" category.

The current recreational diving model most prevalent in the world sort of reminds me of this ...

"Remember when eating out was a terrible experience? You once had to wear some nice clothes, or heaven forbid, a tie! You had to wait to be seated. Wait for your server and maybe not like him or her. You had to wait while your food was prepared. There was no standardization of how a burger or your chicken was made. You had to wait for your check. And, dining out was expensive. Now, we've freed you from all of that torture. Just head into our drive-thru and order the #5 meal deal. You don't even have to get out of your car."

"Thinking about opening a restaurant? Why take a risk that your brand won't be recognized. Our flaming archway will guarantee that you will be part of the 500 trillion served and you won't have to pay employees above minimum wage because you'll get sucker after sucker wanting to the prestige of being a 'burger pro'. You'll increase your profits. But, mostly ours."

Not that I'm cynical.

 

[SanDiegoSidemount]

Well maybe an instructor with a nothing to lose and everything to gain mentality can run a course based on how they used to do it years ago.
6-7 Weeks of training, 400 yd swims before each class, good old military style harrassment, all kinds of underwater don and doff drills, in depth theory and table use combined with use of all the modern stuff we use these days like computers and the other recreational gear sold in todays dive shops.
Include everything in AOW and rescue (but do better versions)

I'm happy to run you through these like we used to do in the old days. Bring a bare Freedom Plate with harness and tank, and a horse collar BC! (I can lend you one from my collection.) Your weight belt should have a wire quick-release buckle.

You'll need a surf mat for the Rescue part. (One of the best rescue/safety tools we ever had for shore diving. Inner tube buoys are useless.)

Oh, and by the way, you need to be able to do most of these skills while buddy breathing. (Another lost art.)

Also, the 400 yard swim is done in full gear, with various ditches & dons (mask, WB, etc) done on each lap. (Actually, the total distance was 20 lengths of the pool, or 500 yards.)

We'll have a blast. And yes, most modern gear would be falling apart after just a few pool sessions like this.

Total cost of gear for this "advanced course": probably <$1000. Trouble is, they don't make a lot of it any more.

 

[drrich2]

The quality of modern dive instruction gets brought up in the success, or lack thereof, of our hobby.

Following through on the restaurant business metaphor, today we can eat rapid serve fast food, or go to a mainstream casual sit down restaurant like Applebee's or O'Charley's, or go 'upscale' to a 'suit & tie' place.

In the scuba 'industry,' if you will (& I know some won't), we likewise have a large range of options. If you want to get fairly minimalist training to get a C card so you can 'herd dive' following the leader (guide) around under very benign conditions in the Caribbean, you can take a mainstream OW course. If you want something more thorough, you can pick one of the instructors who offers a more 'souped up' course, or take some more courses (e.g.: AOW, Deep or Tech 40, UW Navigation, Rescue). And you want to get more highly skilled, then yes, a well-taught GUE Fundamentals course, or some technical dive training, or if available great mentoring, can help you get there.

No one wants to see the entire restaurant scene change to suit & tie sit-down establishments with wine lists, just as not everybody wants to eat at McDonalds all the time.

Different strokes, different folks.

From a marketing perspective, do you want to focus on prestige brands, lower volume higher margin types (e.g.: Apple Computer), or more mass market high volume low margin brands (McDonalds)?

Richard.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Totally agree with you, Richard. The thing is that most everyone understands eating. Few people understand diving and often don't know that there is a choice when signing up for OW. I have nothing against PADI personally. Last night, I tried to watch PADI videos with an open mind to see if any could be a good addition to any PSAI courses since we are allowed to use other materials in class. But, I couldn't deal with the Charlie Chaplin wanna-be dude and the "happy meal" script. I'm sure some people like that. I never liked Chaplin in motion pictures. I like my courses serious and scientific. What I think we need is a way of overcoming the "flaming archway" marketing to reach beyond the fast food training and find people who want to be a different kind of diver again.

 

[SanDiegoSidemount]

Be a different kind of diver again.

That's the slogan!

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

The quality of modern dive instruction gets brought up in the success, or lack thereof, of our hobby.

Following through on the restaurant business metaphor, today we can eat rapid serve fast food, or go to a mainstream casual sit down restaurant like Applebee's or O'Charley's, or go 'upscale' to a 'suit & tie' place.

In the scuba 'industry,' if you will (& I know some won't), we likewise have a large range of options. If you want to get fairly minimalist training to get a C card so you can 'herd dive' following the leader (guide) around under very benign conditions in the Caribbean, you can take a mainstream OW course. If you want something more thorough, you can pick one of the instructors who offers a more 'souped up' course, or take some more courses (e.g.: AOW, Deep or Tech 40, UW Navigation, Rescue). And you want to get more highly skilled, then yes, a well-taught GUE Fundamentals course, or some technical dive training, or if available great mentoring, can help you get there.

No one wants to see the entire restaurant scene change to suit & tie sit-down establishments with wine lists, just as not everybody wants to eat at McDonalds all the time.

Different strokes, different folks.

From a marketing perspective, do you want to focus on prestige brands, lower volume higher margin types (e.g.: Apple Computer), or more mass market high volume low margin brands (McDonalds)?

Richard.

Like they say in the car sales business, "There's an ass for every seat".
Just like with dive training, there are different categories and different skill levels.
Building on todays general scuba diving. The training people get now is fine for DM lead dives in warm water. If people want more they incrementally get more training, which in todays diving doesn't seem to amount to much, it's still way too soft. I don't think they're doing anybody any favors.

GUE in my opinion misses the mark on what I'm envisioning. It's too restrictive and doesn't allow for any individuality or acceptance of new ideas or products. DIR in cave training is great where they should all be standardized, but I think the typical DIR configuration is awkward and too cluttered for much of the diving regular recreational people do worldwide.
Their gear choices are a little excessive for the average person and I think their default style of sky diver position with feet up and sculling around is silliness. Maybe in very sensitive environments like caves and wrecks and anti silting but not for open ocean rocky bottom high surge situations.
I think a much more flexible and dynamic style would be better suited to fit a wider variety of environments and conditions.

Like Akimbo said, skip the indoctrination and brainwashing, just concentrate on skills and comfort. Any good diver can make any gear work.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

GUE in my opinion misses the mark on what I'm envisioning. It's too restrictive and doesn't allow for any individuality or acceptance of new ideas or products. DIR in cave training is great where they should all be standardized, but I think the typical DIR configuration is awkward and too cluttered for much of the diving regular recreational people do worldwide.
Their gear choices are a little excessive for the average person and I think their default style of sky diver position with feet up and sculling around is silliness. Maybe in very sensitive environments like caves and wrecks and anti silting but not for open ocean rocky bottom high surge situations.
I think a much more flexible and dynamic style would be better suited to fit a wider variety of environments and conditions.

Awkward and too cluttered? How so?
Excessive gear choice?...it's actually pretty minimal, not a lot of bells and whistles at all.
Being in a horizontal position?....as opposed to what? Being vertical? or perhaps a 45 degree angle?

I must be missing a lot of aspects of this, because I fail to see your points here.

"There's an ass for every seat." I hope everyone finds a seat that their ass is happy with.

BTW: I checked out your website. You oil painting is awesome! I love the old school striping and lettering also...Very bad ass!!