Mares X-Stream - thoughts?

[Kokeldil]

I have the X-streams, used them on about 50 or so dives. They´re super light and a great choice if you need to cut down on baggage weight for flights. They´re way too flabby though for my taste (but certainly a good choice for a small lady, as many say). Ever since I bought myself some heavy blades I only use the X-streams when I travel abroad.

 

[buddhasummer]

I hate to call people out (and I am not doing so intentionally) but the internet (and especially SB) is full of second stories that end up with no actual first hand people in them. The group think here is especially vocal about anything that is not BP/W, 7 foot hoses, and Jet Fins, which is unfortunate because it gives this remarkably skewed view of diving that simply is not representative of people who actually dive.

Mares has not yet heard of any of these problems so if you know somebody who actually has has the problem, get them in touch with Mares. That's the point of the clicker hard stop in the flex, and the siderails. I have broken lots of fins (Seawings (original), Seawing Novas (before the upgrade), etc. so I am pretty hesitant to but these type of flex at the joint fins.


It seems weird that they would break at the rubber flex before snapping the plastic, but.

---------- Post added July 7th, 2013 at 11:11 PM ----------



As mentioned contact Mares. They are a gorup of us doing 2-5 dives a day on these for the last year and no one has had any problems with them. Then again no one is diving is cold water nor are we standing on our fins (which is a common cause of fin breaking).

Calling out implies disbelief. I did not report any untruths. My post was fair and balanced on what I had read. I don't believe anyone would say their fins broke if they had not. From memory at least two of those reports were posted on SB. Read post #3, that makes 4 I've read. I didn't say the fins were bad I just reported on what I had read in answer to the OPs specific question.

If Mares are saying that they have no knowledge of any of their fins breaking at the joint then I call BS. I said 'several" reports not hundreds, certainly not in the same league as the Seawings, or perhaps I shouldn't say that because that info too is only from what I've read. So if I reported that I had read about Seawing breakages based on let's say your post and two others would you have a problem with that?

It seems like your saying no one should report about anything they heard or read unless they themselves have first hand experience? That seems like nonsense to me.

If you've got an ax to grind about "the vocal group" take it up with them not me, I resent being compared to "that" group. I certainly do not subscribe to equipment dogma.

I have no problem being "called out" if it warrants it, my post in this thread did not.

 

[beanojones]

Well the difference being that ScubaPro shops all over the place have been able to put bungies on all their rental fins from stripping them off the failed first generation of SeaWing Novas they had to warranty, and then have had no revised SeaWing Novas returned, I'd say that there is a reason to say the SeaWinfg Novas (first generation) had problems, and that the second generation fixed them. If you know a ScubaPro dealer you can ask them yourself.

I'd also say this because I myself have broken a pair, but I have not tried the second generation. The old SeaWings broke with a warning, the new ones just broke in two, so I could not risk trying the second generation.

I have not seen any X-Streams break, and Mares had not gotten any report about them breaking last I checked. It was part of my deal in trying them out. I do deal directly with distributors and not with dive shops nor directly with the manufacturer, so my line of communication is a lot more free of signal noise than some, but it is not perfect.

It is also possible that no one has broken them in my region, but that the cold or some other factor breaks them other places. So where matters as well. And no, I do not trust people saying stuff on the internet much. After all, I do read a lot of stuff that is written here, and there is a tendency for people I know to be very inexperienced in actual diving to sound like they are 'experienced' to readers because they have read ScubaBoard a lot and repeat what they have read. So read here at ScubaBoard about people saying they broke them does not unfortunately carry much weight.

I was hoping that there was someone you actually know (rather than internet know) who had broken them. After all, if my fins fail, it is a pretty major risk for me. The ScubaPro was a shock, though from experience with the original SeaWings it was a shock how they broke in two, not that they broke down. The Mares X-Streams are something I would hate to part with, but if I have to because they are actually breaking, then I have to.

And I don't have a back up plan for a different fin now. It sounds like I should be looking into one.

 

[tracydr]

I don't understand the point of the holes in the middle. Looks like a great place to get entangled or worse even, break.
I have Hollis F2s that I really love, after having some split fins that worked okay for over 10 years. I also have an older pair of Jet fins that don't fit well but I really like, if only they fit better.
For lighter fins, I'd look for something of similar shape to a Jet fin with a spring strap in lighter materials. There are a few, I found some last summer when searching for something to use with my 3 ml. Check out the Edge Expedition.

 

[buddhasummer]

Well the difference being that ScubaPro shops all over the place have been able to put bungies on all their rental fins from stripping them off the failed first generation of SeaWing Novas they had to warranty, and then have had no revised SeaWing Novas returned, I'd say that there is a reason to say the SeaWinfg Novas (first generation) had problems, and that the second generation fixed them. If you know a ScubaPro dealer you can ask them yourself.

I'd also say this because I myself have broken a pair, but I have not tried the second generation. The old SeaWings broke with a warning, the new ones just broke in two, so I could not risk trying the second generation.

I have not seen any X-Streams break, and Mares had not gotten any report about them breaking last I checked. It was part of my deal in trying them out. I do deal directly with distributors and not with dive shops nor directly with the manufacturer, so my line of communication is a lot more free of signal noise than some, but it is not perfect.

It is also possible that no one has broken them in my region, but that the cold or some other factor breaks them other places. So where matters as well. And no, I do not trust people saying stuff on the internet much. After all, I do read a lot of stuff that is written here, and there is a tendency for people I know to be very inexperienced in actual diving to sound like they are 'experienced' to readers because they have read ScubaBoard a lot and repeat what they have read. So read here at ScubaBoard about people saying they broke them does not unfortunately carry much weight.

I was hoping that there was someone you actually know (rather than internet know) who had broken them. After all, if my fins fail, it is a pretty major risk for me. The ScubaPro was a shock, though from experience with the original SeaWings it was a shock how they broke in two, not that they broke down. The Mares X-Streams are something I would hate to part with, but if I have to because they are actually breaking, then I have to.

And I don't have a back up plan for a different fin now. It sounds like I should be looking into one.

I hear you. I'm not sure how much of a concern several anecdotal reports of failure are. The actual mechanism that caused the breakage is almost always unknown or unreported. Having said that I would be hesitant to take them on a trip just in case.

I own some Seawing Gorillas which I love, I bought them after the huge number of reported failures, as much as I like them I will not take them travel diving just in case. I use Hollis F2s as their construction seems very robust. I do quite a lot of travel diving and having a fin break on a live-aboard would be a nuisance at the very least. Fins with joints/articulations etc are obviously going to be more prone to breakage by virtue of their design.

I have read failures on Novas, AL Hot shots, Mares Volo and Xstreams. Maybe these broke due to user, maybe not, but either way for travel diving they are all out for me. Paranoid maybe but so far I've never had an equipment failure in almost 15 years of diving. I keep a very close eye on my Gorillas, locally always carry another set of fins just in case. I'm sure they will no doubt one day give at the joint.

Just to be clear I'm not/was not suggesting that the Xstreams are unreliable just that there have been some reports of failure at the joint. SB is nowhere indicative of the general diving population and only represents a small percentage of all divers, even if there have only been three reports of failure on SB how many more are there unreported? I have no idea, but it is enough to give me pause. I'm sure Mares are aware of at least some failures but at what number they decide is enough to go public is also unknown. I remember ScubaPro initially tried very hard to down play the number of failures on the Novas. I'm not suggesting Mares are doing the same but fact is failures have been reported, is it a big concern? Who knows, probably not as if it were I'm sure we would have seen reports in higher numbers. But like I said personally I wouldn't buy them for a diving holiday. I'm not sure of pricing where you are but over here they are hellish expensive.

---------- Post added July 8th, 2013 at 11:05 AM ----------

I don't see why someone would lie about a failure? Maybe I'm too trusting.

 

[tracydr]

I finally figured out that Beanojones lives in Hawaii!

 

[buddhasummer]

I finally figured out that Beanojones lives in Hawaii!

Aloha...:cool2:

 

[beanojones]

I keep a very close eye on my Gorillas, locally always carry another set of fins just in case. I'm sure they will no doubt one day give at the joint.
.

Just to reassure you a bit, the SeaWings, and thus the Gorillas, showed clear signs before they broke, and never failed so spectacularly nor as suddenly as the SeaWing Novas did. When the SeaWings failed they got floppy, but were still usable for awhile. As in a couple of dives at least. Whereas the first gen SeaWing Novas would rip straight through in one dive, maybe because of the material. So even though I now believe the new generation to have solved the problem, I cannot risk using them, because if a lawsuit resulted from something related to the issue, I would kind of be in a hard to defend place. Never been sued, hope never to be, but liability issues are a thing to keep in mind in gear choices.

I guess if I knew that if the X-Streams were to break they would fail like the SeaWings, and not like the SeaWing Novas, that would be doable in some sense with me. But as far as I can provide anecdotal evidence on the internet, though for me it is first hand, I am seeing a bunch of full-timers use them with absolutely no middle joint issues.

---------- Post added July 8th, 2013 at 10:46 PM ----------

I don't understand the point of the holes in the middle. Looks like a great place to get entangled or worse even, break.

For lighter fins, I'd look for something of similar shape to a Jet fin with a spring strap in lighter materials. There are a few, I found some last summer when searching for something to use with my 3 ml. Check out the Edge Expedition.

The funny thing about the holes on the X-Streams is that they are a great handle, which until I actually used these fins I never thought would even be a thing to want in a fin. On surf entries being able to grab a solid handle on two fins in one hand is actually very, very useful.

I have never liked Jet Fins or the various versions of them. I keep trying them, because there are lots of good things about the design. But part of that is that I came from free-diving fins, and that's what I want from a fin, huge flex and snap. So the X-streams which do the huge flex and snap, without the length, and are feather light to boot, are perfect for me*

Also, when carrying 4 extra pairs of fins in various sizes, the feather weight of these fins is great. The Cheap Tusa fins are also light but they are just too weak.

*Assuming the breaking never happens to me, or it does not become a widespread issue.

 

[Progen]

Yeah, the gaps on the sides of the Xs are great fingerholds, especially when you want to practice the buddha hover.

 

[Flaminr6]

Just snapped mine at the joint. 11 dives


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