Mares Air Lock

[jplacson]

My concern is not whether the Air-Lock system fails and lets your tank slip out... I'm sure it was designed to hold the tank in place in the event of failure... but I'm more concerned about the air hose to the Air-Lock... what if it leaks during a dive?

I'm not against the Air-Trim or Air-Lock... I would never use one after demoing it in my LDS... but I think it's a neat toy.

I guess for OW divers who stick to the OW limit of 60 feet (AOW is 130ft) , all these cute toys and plastic clips are fun. Hey, that's why most of us dive to begin with, cuz it's fun!

For the same reason that people drive very flimsy and expensive SUVs which can't even go off-road over a durable Land Rover Defender which is far cheaper and more capable than a Merc ML320 or BMW X5.

 

[RichLockyer]

jplacson once bubbled...
I'm more concerned about the air hose to the Air-Lock... what if it leaks during a dive?

While I feel that the system is an overly-complicated failure-prone solution to a problem that does not exist....

...this is not a concern... the system uses the BC inflator hose and does not have a full-time connection to the tank.

 

[paulwlee]

Lau8 once bubbled...
May be that is why the scuba industry is still backward as compare to other industry (like aerospace).

I may be wrong here as I'm not a pilot, but it seems to me that the RECREATIONAL aerospace industry hasn't progressed much beyond the Cessna 172, which came out more than four decades ago.

If you're talking about something like the F-22 Raptor or B-2 bomber, then that's not the recreational industry, and you can't compare that with this.

What's more, there were plenty of advances in the SCUBA industry. SPG's, BC's, dive computers, rebreathers, and so on, all since the Cessna 172 came out. (more or less)

The Airlock to me, seems analogous to an 'automatic zipper' that zips itself. Cool, yes, but not much more. I can already zip up my fly easily enough. Why complicate things?

 

[Big-t-2538]

Lau8 once bubbled...
May be that is why the scuba industry is still backward as compare to other industry (like aerospace). What is wrong with having something that make your equipment setup easier and faster or more efficient. Especially if it's a young diver or is handicap. Embrace the technology. Otherwise we will still be driving a model T, and using smoke signal instead of cell phone or GPS.

Would you like the innovators to install one of these devices in your car so you don't have to buckle the seat belt every time you go somewhere.?

For a select few people this might be a benefit....for the general diving population it is a new "whiz-bang widget" for those who need to spend money.

 

[igoRluse]

Well, I'm considering an airlock to resolve my problems. I could be qualified as a big strong type and have tried it all to prevent my tank from slipping but nothing works it just keeps happening once in a while. Whatever anyone thinks, the tank slipping problem exists for me and I have found no way around the problem. It could be a number of factors that cause this. I carry a 15lt steel tank with an 2.6lt pony. The pony bracket could be the major cause of my slippage problem as it is made to be slipped in between the main tank and the strap and takes up at least 10 cm of the straps circum. so that's about 10 cm of the strap that doesn't grip the tank. Also my BCD is a one strap design with no rubber on the back plate where the tank sits like on some more expensive BCDs.

What I hope to get from the airlock is to tighten the strap more than possible by hand. Can anybody who has actually used one tell me if this is going to work?

If the airlock can solve my problems, it defo will be A$190 well spent.

 

[dsgobie]

If it ain't broke............

DON'T FIX IT.

 

[igoRluse]

If it ain't broke............

DON'T FIX IT.

Hmmm, good thing some people don't think like that or we'd still be riding around in carts pulled by animals and living in mud huts.

I find it amusing how most people just can't cope with the material they are used to, progressing. I'm sure when the Fenzy (ancestor of the BCD) was first released, all the oldies from the diving pop. were shouting that it's useless, dangerous etc... Same thing for the octopus. Why go and change the buddy-breathing system? It works... Just have a read on the NGs what most people are saying about HUBs, diving sonar navigation systems or just about any other system that replaces a component or technique they are used to.

I've done a bit of research on the airlock this afternoon, and IMO it is a very well designed, safe and usefull thing. I personally find strapping up my tank on a crowded dive boat rolling around in the waves to be a pain in the butt.
As I explained above, even with all the effort I put into it, I still lose my tank once in a while. Anyway, I'll be getting myself an airlock this weekend, then on my next dive I'll just strap up my tank tighter then anyone else with no effort at all. If someone appears to not enjoy strapping up his or loses his tank, I'll have a chat and show him my new buy. For those who aren't interested, well, that's their problem not mine. I'll just smile and enjoy my dive.

 

[RichLockyer]

Hmmm, good thing some people don't think like that or we'd still be riding around in carts pulled by animals and living in mud huts.

I'm sick of hearing the "horse buggy/mud hut" argument used to support the BS that the scuba manufacturers are shoving down the throats of the newbies.
It's one thing to offer improvement leading to dramatic increases in efficiency and productivity and it's quite another thing to create a perceived problem and solve it with a piece of $200 marketing, while adding failure points to the system.
What are you going to do when the system fails and you can't cinch up your tank... or when it won't release after the dive?
The correct solution is to use the proper equipment... a BC with double bands takes care of the problem completely, and adds redundancy without increasing the number or severity of failure points.

You mentioned the HUB. Take the reg/hose/manifold assembly out of the HUB and try to use it with a conventional BC. You won't find many DMs that'll let you in the water with that convoluted CF.
But my biggest concern about the HUB isn't for your safety when the reg system fails... it's for MY safety when you or your buddy go OOA and come to me for air. Say I'm wearing a weight-integrated BC. Your buddy is used to diving with you, and knows that your HUB "octo" is in the pocket, under the plastic handle.
He grabs MY plastic handle and boom... he's now 10 pounds overweight and heading to the bottom, and I'm 10 pounds light and heading to the surface.
If we're on a wall at 120 in Cozumel, one of us now has a potentially fatal problem (even if he drops the weight, his air is now going up VERY quickly), and I have the distict possibility of hitting the surface ready for a chamber ride.
Even if he does drop the weight and we both survive unharmed, I'm now missing a weight pocket, and my vacation is ruined if one is not available on the island.

 

[igoRluse]

No need to get excited. Just discussing POVs here.

I'm sick of hearing the "horse buggy/mud hut" argument used to support the BS that the scuba manufacturers are shoving down the throats of the newbies.

You may be sick of hearing the "horse buggy/mud hut" argument, but for some people it is very real. Anytime something new comes on to the market, someone comes to a NG willing to talk about it with others and all that happens is a bunch of trolls who know absolutely nothing about the product flame the guy/product giving arguments like "you're adding failure points". Just take the time to learn a bit about the airlock, then read this entire thread again and you'll realise that most of the posts are unfounded and made by trolls who know nothing about it.

It's one thing to offer improvement leading to dramatic increases in efficiency and productivity and it's quite another thing to create a perceived problem and solve it with a piece of $200 marketing, while adding failure points to the system.

Could you go a bit further on these "failure points", I'm very interested. The only failure points I was concerned about revealed to be unfounded when I took the time to find out a bit more about the product.

What are you going to do when the system fails and you can't cinch up your tank...

Well I'll just use the cam the same way as I would on a system without the airlock. The airlock is just a add-on to a standard cam system. You'd know this if you actually knew anything about the product.

or when it won't release after the dive?

Well I guess that if this happens I'll cut the strap and go to my dive store to ask for a refund. Is your concern on failure of the release system founded on anything?

The correct solution is to use the proper equipment... a BC with double bands takes care of the problem completely, and adds redundancy without increasing the number or severity of failure points.

Indeed, but I have a single strap BCD and for the moment, an airlock is a much cheaper solution for me. I guess I'll test the airlock now and if it fails, my next BCD will be a dual strap one. On the other hand, if it proves reliable, I'll go for a single strap BCD with the airlock as it makes securing the tank virtually effortless.

You mentioned the HUB. Take the reg/hose/manifold assembly out of the HUB and try to use it with a conventional BC. You won't find many DMs that'll let you in the water with that convoluted CF.
But my biggest concern about the HUB isn't for your safety when the reg system fails... it's for MY safety when you or your buddy go OOA and come to me for air. Say I'm wearing a weight-integrated BC. Your buddy is used to diving with you, and knows that your HUB "octo" is in the pocket, under the plastic handle.
He grabs MY plastic handle and boom... he's now 10 pounds overweight and heading to the bottom, and I'm 10 pounds light and heading to the surface.
If we're on a wall at 120 in Cozumel, one of us now has a potentially fatal problem (even if he drops the weight, his air is now going up VERY quickly), and I have the distict possibility of hitting the surface ready for a chamber ride.
Even if he does drop the weight and we both survive unharmed, I'm now missing a weight pocket, and my vacation is ruined if one is not available on the island.

The HUB is a different subject and I prefer to leave the subject to people who know something about it.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

... I'm sure when the Fenzy (ancestor of the BCD) was first released, all the oldies from the diving pop. were shouting that it's useless, dangerous etc...

The Fenzy WAS/IS a BC. BC = BOUYANCY COMPENSATOR. Any object you
can 'fill' with gas (even your lungs) can be used to "bouyancy compensate".

If you are not strong enough to properly tighten a standard cam-band
(or a SP "super cinch", etc.) then either "get strong" or "get out".