Management of *backmount* independent doubles?

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I went diving again today with the hose retainer bungee holding the bolt snap on my long hose. It popped off twice while I was moving stuff around gearing up. Not at all a safety issue, of course, but it’s not inspiring confidence for its ability to reliably hold things in place.

I might have missed it, are you using one these? Hose Clip Retainer

I've found them to be pretty reliable. It takes a firm tug to pull them loose but you can do so. They will slide on the braided hoses, but not on the rubber ones. (I'm attaching them as shown on the link.)
 
Is that a real ? or talking out the rear for a blog?

You aren't supposed to donate your 24" necklaced short hose in an OOA emergency. The exception is, if its in standard length 32" or longer - this is acceptable standard. It has to reach your buddy. A short hose isn't even longer than an arm & leaves you too close to your buddy, can be dangerous for both. You can necklace a standard length hose & remedy your short configuration if you choose to, if you are worried, about donating your necklace. Buddy always gets the longhose though. In your config, that's the one supposed to be clipped to your D-ring - the longer hose. He'll just have to wait for you to unclip, which is something you have to become comfortable with & the reason why there are reg switches in independent twins, by unsnapping.

How do you not have sidemount training, with -1,000 dives but are on doubles? ZERO, the profile pic shows you carrying a bottle? All you have to do is take-off your tanks & bands, clip one on each side & go diving. Necklace the left & clip-on the right in standard lengths. You can use any BCD, with D-rings & mount in-water, so you don't feel the weight.

Gas management, switching every 200 psi is too many times, sums like 10-13 switches, only a crazy psycho would switch that many times or more. You only need to generally switch 4-5 times max +/- & at the end, if you repeat for a perfect balanced END. Your gas management doesn't have to always be 1/3rds, it can be a set of 500 psi ascents, depending on depth & whether your entry/exit points depend on each other. You feel the tank lift & then you switch, its just one sensing method. Another is your internal biological diving clock. With experience, you sense your dive time switch. With 80s, every 500 psi is more realistic & you can also pick switch points, during your dive, like during NAV or use waypoints/objects/landmarks. If you switch using 1/3rds, your trim will suffer. It's O.K, can work but just a-little long. IOW, it just isn't ideal & inst. don't teach every 1,000 psi because of trim.

That's why, you can necklace a standard hose length, which comes first, before short hosing your config. In this case, you donate a standard length hose & again, remedy your issue. The other problem is, you aren't comfortable donating the clipped hose, which is the one, that's supposed to be handed out. That's a problem in your config & you aren't trained for it. It isn't supposed to be an easy to donate reg, like a necklace, where you just pull out or an OCTO in a BCD pocket/sleeve. This one requires 1 additional task. On IND twins, the long hose still has to be secured. However, you are right in, that you first let it dangle, it's actually acceptable & you can do it, upgrade to a boltsnap later or use a retractor or other plastic clip, even a hose router, whatever you have - eventually a boltsnap. By dangling it, it isn't optimal but it just has to be near your mouth or chest, accessible considering. You can even tuck it in your waist strap - this is another method for a time, when BCDs didn't have OCTO slevees/pockets, D-rings or BCD pockets.

Actually, with independent doubles, you always have redundancy, over a manifold. I'm not going in-to details but a diver can loose a ton of air or all of it, using manifolds & not have enough to even finish a proper ascent, much less a 1/3rds exit. With IND twins, the gas is always there for you, even if the other tank fails. You can extended range (XR), using air & nitrox - XR with NOX & bottom on air. You can even trimix on independents, while you can't on manifolds alone because you aren't supposed to separate gas. With IND twins, the gas is already separated, while gas is mixed, with a manifold - in traditional. The name of the game is optimal oxygen for the dive, the twin can achieve that. I will have lower nitrogen loading, XR & DECO gas, with independents.

You will just have to live with the fact that you aren't supposed to donate a 24" necklaced 2nd stage for OOA buddy emergencies & that the right long/longer hose has to be clipped, with a snapbolt. Yes, people are trained in that, during class. What you lack is training for independents, sidemount & carry - how you have 500-1000 dives, while still asking a basic question is mind boggling. For all those years, your config. & emergency plan was wrong.

I don't think it's a good idea to build doubles on deck or below deck on boat rides to a dive location. It doesn't make sense to me putting together parts on the ride out. You can just as easily clip-on a pony-40 or 80 cft, which gives instant doubles but since you have ZERO sidemount training, you won't like it, as you already discarded the style altogether. If a diver lacks sidemount training then that's, what he should train-on, the deficit. Don't get the wrong impression but you shouldn't be diving independents, switching regs or donating gas in emergencies. You gotta go back to, why it isn't a good idea to donate a short hose in an OOA emergency & why you aren't comfortable with any of the techniques. You need an actual real class, not a DIY.
 
After almost 4 years of silence in this thread I want to know if any of the independent doubles advocates have actually taken a trip, where they had to jimmy jangle 2 cylinders together because a proper manifold wasn't available and used them for a doubles required dive (I guess with another single as a stage for deco gas?)??

Or has it all been for mere mental "you know what"? Because in my somewhat limited travel experience an operator who doesnt have doubles also doesnt have mix, or anyway to make deco gasses, or deco cylinders, or ladders adequate to get back on the boat with all this stuff, or a skipper who has a clue how to follow an SMB.
 
After almost 4 years of silence in this thread I want to know if any of the independent doubles advocates have actually taken a trip, where they had to jimmy jangle 2 cylinders together because a proper manifold wasn't available and used them for a doubles required dive (I guess with another single as a stage for deco gas?)??

Or has it all been for mere mental "you know what"? Because in my somewhat limited travel experience an operator who doesnt have doubles also doesnt have mix, or anyway to make deco gasses, or deco cylinders, or ladders adequate to get back on the boat with all this stuff, or a skipper who has a clue how to follow an SMB.

Sigh.

Did you read the thread? Even just the first post?

If you had read even just that first post, you would have seen the specific situation I was targeting.

This was never about technical dives. It was about recreational dives ONLY. Deco never entered the conversation, let alone the insanity of tri mix with back mount independent doubles.

The purpose was clearly stated: advanced *recreational* dives. Ones where everybody else are on single tanks, yet where I or others might feel that we were better prepared if we had additional gas.

And if you had read a little farther into the thread, you would’ve seen that, yes, I had done multiple dives during this time using independent doubles, putting into practice some of the items discussed in the thread. I also discussed situation where things did not go as well as hoped, and areas that were worth exploring further.

But feel free to create a strawman and then make yourself feel better arguing against it.
 
Sigh.

Did you read the thread? Even just the first post?

If you had read even just that first post, you would have seen the specific situation I was targeting.

This was never about technical dives. It was about recreational dives ONLY. Deco never entered the conversation, let alone the insanity of tri mix with back mount independent doubles.

The purpose was clearly stated: advanced *recreational* dives. Ones where everybody else are on single tanks, yet where I or others might feel that we were better prepared if we had additional gas.

And if you had read a little farther into the thread, you would’ve seen that, yes, I had done multiple dives during this time using independent doubles, putting into practice some of the items discussed in the thread. I also discussed situation where things did not go as well as hoped, and areas that were worth exploring further.

But feel free to create a strawman and then make yourself feel better arguing against it.
Yes and plenty of folks piled on afterwards with all kinds of scenarios!
Have you tried it? What worked? What was mediocre? What sucked?
 
Sigh.

Did you read the thread? Even just the first post?

If you had read even just that first post, you would have seen the specific situation I was targeting.

This was never about technical dives. It was about recreational dives ONLY. Deco never entered the conversation, let alone the insanity of tri mix with back mount independent doubles.

The purpose was clearly stated: advanced *recreational* dives. Ones where everybody else are on single tanks, yet where I or others might feel that we were better prepared if we had additional gas.

And if you had read a little farther into the thread, you would’ve seen that, yes, I had done multiple dives during this time using independent doubles, putting into practice some of the items discussed in the thread. I also discussed situation where things did not go as well as hoped, and areas that were worth exploring further.

But feel free to create a strawman and then make yourself feel better arguing against it.

Did you ever try just slinging an extra 80 and sticking with single tank backmount? I used to live up in your area, Holland and did just a little cold water diving...

Since moving to Cozumel and diving the way I do down here - I got rid of all my sidemount stuff as it is a PITA on a boat - doubles are almost equally a PITA to deal with here when transporting or securing in the boat so I needed a way for more gas and just started slinging one.....

For me and what I do, it is huge freedom! I can dive 2 or 3 different gases, only have to have one BCD setup and I can change my mind as to what I'm doing at the last minute while on the boat. It is way more simplier for me while boat diving in the current here and I think I get just a bit more benefit than doubles.
 
Did you ever try just slinging an extra 80 and sticking with single tank backmount?
I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve slung a bottle with a single tank, and it was an AL30. That was way back in the mists of time, before any kind of tech training.

Since then, I’ve slung 40’s and 80’s a number of times, but only in doubles: deco bottles or stage bottles or a combination.

At least in doubles, I have no problem with doing it. And yeah, bringing rigging for an 80 would certainly be a simple enough solution.

But I really like doubles. I simply do not dive anything else. Even for dives I have to climb up ladders and over fences to get out of the water, I use doubles — I’ve assembled a couple sets of LP72 doubles just for that.

For me, using doubles consistently simplifies the logistics, both of my gear and of my diving. I really like the full redundancy and instant access. Plus I really like not having to switch tanks on a boat! :)

I’m not saying you’re wrong, and I’m glad it works for you. But it would not be my preference as a solution to target.
 
I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve slung a bottle with a single tank, and it was an AL30. That was way back in the mists of time, before any kind of tech training.

Since then, I’ve slung 40’s and 80’s a number of times, but only in doubles: deco bottles or stage bottles or a combination.

At least in doubles, I have no problem with doing it. And yeah, bringing rigging for an 80 would certainly be a simple enough solution.

But I really like doubles. I simply do not dive anything else. Even for dives I have to climb up ladders and over fences to get out of the water, I use doubles — I’ve assembled a couple sets of LP72 doubles just for that.

For me, using doubles consistently simplifies the logistics, both of my gear and of my diving. I really like the full redundancy and instant access. Plus I really like not having to switch tanks on a boat! :)

I’m not saying you’re wrong, and I’m glad it works for you. But it would not be my preference as a solution to target.

Dive what works for you is all that really matters!! Enjoy!!
 
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http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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