Man Dies After Dive on Spiegel Grove

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

mike_s:
True...

but if a diver dies underwater from something like asphyxiation (insufficient intake of oxygen ) and though he never sucks water into his lungs, coroner's or medical examiners will still put down cause of death as "drowing" since they were in water though they really didn't drown. Even if he had a heart attack that caused all of this for example.

Of course the legal definition of drowning is asphyxiation caused by immersion in fluid, but to most of us, drowning usually includes sucking in water into our lungs.

I thought that when a person drowned then actually got little water in their lungs. Usually, when something hits the vocal cords the cords slam shut and the epiglottis covers the trachea (both to protect the lungs from foriegn objects) and you cannot breath anything in.

Fluid can then be in the lungs on autopsy from negative pressure pulmonary edema (fluid being pulling into the aveoli from the force of trying to breath against a closed glottis).

This is what I thought happened with drowning but, I could be wrong.
 
oceanaddicted:
Guy had a heart attack. Was out with Silent World and totally freaked them out. This is the 3rd death on the Spiegel Grove I'm sorry to say. Only thing good about this is that it was NOT diver error. It's very sad.

If this is true its very sad for them. I dove the grove with them a month ago. They had two crew on board (1st mate and captain). The first mate was prepared to get in to assist if needed. They were a great operation and attentive when we were there. They also have small boats which means not a lot of divers in the water. On our dive we were the only boat on the grove.

I agree with not moving the boat if others are on their way up or nearby trying to board. Why put others at risk. In rough seas the chance that someone else would become injured or exhausted at the surface is great.

Miranda
 
erdoc1:
- I think they intubated his stomach

Don't your local protocols call for listening for sounds out of the stomach while bagging the patient?
 
I think the discussion of TWO SEPARATE INCIDENTS...The "It's A Dive" incident where guy came up on wrong ball and was told to "wait" while Capt. boarded other passengers...AND the most recent one with "Silent World" makes for CONFUSION in this thread!

I have not dove with It's A Dive. I have made about 50 dives (would have to check my log book for exact number) with Silent World, the last 6 dives were on 12/29; 12/30 & 12/31/2005.

I haven't seen what WAVE CONDITIONS were on Saturday's dive, but IMHO with 4' to 7' waves on It's A Dive incident, THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN OUT THERE! Diver didn't drop his weights, so YES, he had some culpability, but to be told to "hang on" by the captain of It's A Dive, after signaling distress???? Wow!

Silent World has a Captain & DM on board (where my understanding on It's A Dive is a 6-pack and only Capt is on board). Every time I've gone out with them (Silent World) that has been the set-up. Their Capts & DM's are TOP NOTCH. I've seen them in action handling incidents before. I'll be comfortable diving with them in the future.

I just thought that both of these incidents were getting lumped together...and need to remain SEPARATE to help keep the FACTS of BOTH of them clear.

Mike
 
Some additional info:

1.) I've got 100+ dives in Key Largo.
2.) I've done the GROVE 4 times (last time on 12-30-2005). 2 times with Silent World. 2 times with Tavernier Dive Center.
3.) I've had 2 GROVE dives called off. 1 by Silent World when we arrived at site and current was too heavy (wakes coming off ball...measured by GPS at 3mph). 1 I called off with Slate's on July 5th. (I travel by myself and get "pot-luck" with buddies on board. That day there were A LOT of hung-over divers and I didn't want to be buddied with any of them. I left the boat before it left dock. My decision. Not Slate's fault in any way. I just didn't want to be on the GROVE with a UNKNOWN buddy that was not 100%.)
4.) The GROVE is an ADVANCED DIVE! It is deep and can be tricky with current. Usually not as bad as the DUANE, but it can be.
5.) The GROVE is usually CROWDED. When it was on its side, they had 7 balls. We've waited for 30 minutes or more to tie up to a ball because they were all FULL.
6.) The GROVE is usually CROWDED with divers that shouldn't be on that dive due to lack of skills! A lot of bad things can happen to unskilled divers when they are 100 feet deep.
7.) Reading BETWEEN THE LINES of the most recent accident report, it is mentioned the diver that died was diving with his travel companion and a FEMALE from Silent World. I'm going to ASSUME that they were being GUIDED on that dive by Janet from Silent World. She and her husband own the shop. She is also an instructor. I have dived with her and she has SERIOUS SKILLS that you get from diving nearly every day for 18 years!

I guess my POINT IS that both of these INCIDENTS took place on the GROVE and both had the same OUTCOME (diver died) but other than that they are VERY DIFFERENT and UNIQUE!

Also, as pointed out by DON, hopefully this is something WE CAN ALL LEARN FROM!

Mike
 
Thanks Mike, I was indeed confused. The one trip when I went out with Silent World, we only had a captain aboard, not many divers, so I don't know the operation well enough to have caught this. Glad you did.
 
Big Mike:
I haven't seen what WAVE CONDITIONS were on Saturday's dive...

Mike, for what it's worth, I don't know about the Grove, but the Duane had good to great conditions Saturday morning. Guessing maybe 2-4' waves, and fairly mild currents both on the surface and on the bottom. Vis there was 80'+, better than the picture shows. (my scanner is worthless so the color/sharpness is terrible, but notice the dive boat from depth).
Duane_2-4-06.jpg


We wondered what was up with the Silent World boat docked up next to the coast guard and police boats on our return. My sympathies to the family as well.


Jeff
 
erdoc1:
Here's another story of a similar vein, last spring.


BY ANN HENSON, Staff Writer
Posted-Friday, May 6, 2005 1:09 PM EDT Email this story
Printer friendly version







Could a change in protocol have saved a scuba diver who died last weekend while diving the Spiegel Grove?

A team investigating the incident may answer this and other questions surrounding the death.

But one fact is clear - no one was underwater looking for the victim until two hours after the call for help was made.


<name removed>, 44, of Indiatlantic, died as he was diving the Spiegel Grove on Saturday, April 30.


According to Islamorada Coast Guard Commander Dennis Zecca, the Coast Guard followed protocol after getting the call at about 2:50 p.m.

"We launched our rescue boat within five minutes of the call," he said.

"We had aircraft in the area and they were on scene within six minutes."




He said the state Fish and Wildlife Commission was notified and arrived eight minutes after the call.

"We are the surface rescue," Zecca said. "We don't do underwater rescue."

The county was also notified, but the Monroe County Sheriff's Office was unable to provide air support or a dive team.




The head of the dive team was out kayaking on his day off.

"Two hours went by and a follow-up call was made to the county," but this time to conduct an underwater search for a body, Zecca said.

Becky Herrin, spokeswoman for the Sheriff's Office, said both of the sheriff's helicopters were down that day, but she didn't know why.




"The dive team was in the process of assembling when the Key Largo team responded," she said.

"We are not a rapid-response team, like Key Largo Fire Rescue," she said.

"We'll do it if we can and on occasion we can help. Primarily, we are a search-and-recovery team."

The Coast Guard official called Chief Sergio Garcia of the Key Largo Volunteer Department at 5 p.m.

Garcia said his team made it to the Spiegel Grove in 19 minutes.

"They found the diver in deep water at 6:08 p.m." he said, about three hours after the initial call.

Garcia said he didn't know if the diver could have been saved if the Key Largo crew was called initially.

"We won't know that until the autopsy report is back," he said.

"If he had a heart attack and went down," he most likely could not have been saved, he said.

"But we don't know when he went down and for how long."

Dr. Michael Hunter, Monroe County Medical Examiner, said the cause of death was drowning and the victim died very soon after he went down because he was still wearing a weight belt.

However, a final answer through extensive toxicology and other testing will take weeks.

Rob Bleser, who heads the Key Largo dive team, was at his dive shop when Garcia notified him.

Bleser said that for this type of search, a technical diver is needed, especially if the lost diver was still inside the ship.

Two of Bleser's instructors have technical diving certificates and are working on becoming members of the dive team.

"I just took the two guys who were certified to do this," he said.

Other divers in the area were gearing up to head out to the Spiegel Grove, but Bleser's team found the diver nearly immediately upon entering the water.

"They did a superb job," Bleser said. "We are satisfied that we could bring this to closure rather than extending the search to the next day."

Zecca said that waves that day ranged 4-7 feet and the current was running very fast.

"Only experienced divers should be out under those conditions," he said.

According to police reports,
the victim was diving off of It's A Dive.

He surfaced at the wrong mooring ball and signaled to dive captain Jason Hill that he was in trouble.

"Hill advised the victim to stay put until the other divers were on the boat," the report stated.

However,
the victim was pulled off the mooring ball by the current and began to swim for the boat.

Hill's boat left its mooring to find the victim, but could not locate him and immediately called the Coast Guard.

Company officials said they are not making statements due to an ongoing investigation.

Zecca and Herrin, of the Sheriff's Office, said a meeting of all agencies to discuss procedures would be held.

Zecca said he plans to add to Coast Guard protocol that the Key Largo Fire Department be notified immediately for help in future diver situations.

ERdoc, that article was THOROUGHLY discussed (558 posts) in this thread:

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=95804

and even sparked another thread:

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=96928

What are the similarities between the two ... other than the Spiegel Grove?
 
DivingCRNA:
I thought that when a person drowned then actually got little water in their lungs. Usually, when something hits the vocal cords the cords slam shut and the epiglottis covers the trachea (both to protect the lungs from foriegn objects) and you cannot breath anything in.

Fluid can then be in the lungs on autopsy from negative pressure pulmonary edema (fluid being pulling into the aveoli from the force of trying to breath against a closed glottis).

This is what I thought happened with drowning but, I could be wrong.
Not always. The laryngospasms are a reflex that usually does work, but as with anything, doesn't always happen.

In a "dry drowning" where the person does not have water in the lungs, this is the case.

I'm sure you've also heard of a "wet drowning?" In these cases, either the laryngospasm reflex failed or it relaxed prior to cessation of the victim's breathing reflex.
 
Sorry to hear about this most recent death on the Grove. I won't speculate about the accident, but I will add that I've dived many times with Silent World, including a couple of trips to the Grove, and can only say great things about Janet and the boat crew. I'm sorry that this incident happened on their boat. They're a great operation, and I hope to dive with them many times in the future...

-G
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

Back
Top Bottom