Making my way into Technical Diving
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I dive LP85s, and I like them a lot. But the HP100s have almost the same buoyancy characteristics (so you won't really use different weighting with the two sets) and they are actually a little bit lighter to carry. I just bought a set for a second set of doubles for me, but I can imagine getting to where I dive them primarily and use the 85s as a backup set.
I echo the recommendation to look for used stuff. In particular, doubles go up for sale pretty frequently, and the price difference between buying new and buying used is ENORMOUS. I just bought a set of HP100s in hydro with a Thermo manifold for under $500. Regulators, on the other hand, are not quite as good a buy used, because you have to add $100 or more for service to the asking price to figure out what you are actually paying for them.
In California's cold waters, you are going to be using a lot of insulation, and require a lot of weight, so you may well be better off with a SS plate, even with doubles. I started with LP72s and couldn't trim them out, so I went to an Al plate and a big weight belt -- with the 85s, the trim is easier, but I use a 6 lb v-weight with the Al plate, which I wouldn't need to remember if I were using SS . . .
But my final recommendation, and it is a strong one, is to cut costs on the other gear wherever you can, to make the purchase of a good canister light possible. (And they go for good prices, used, too -- I just bought a Salvo 21W LiIon for $500.) Especially if you are going to dive with team divers, the lights are a critical part of your communication and coordination underwater. They literally become a part of you; I had to dive without mine on Tuesday, and felt like I was out in public in my underwear
Prioritize that purchase over doubles, IMHO. You can work on skills, mindset, situational awareness and communication in a single tank, but the light is needed.
I echo the recommendation to look for used stuff. In particular, doubles go up for sale pretty frequently, and the price difference between buying new and buying used is ENORMOUS. I just bought a set of HP100s in hydro with a Thermo manifold for under $500. Regulators, on the other hand, are not quite as good a buy used, because you have to add $100 or more for service to the asking price to figure out what you are actually paying for them.
In California's cold waters, you are going to be using a lot of insulation, and require a lot of weight, so you may well be better off with a SS plate, even with doubles. I started with LP72s and couldn't trim them out, so I went to an Al plate and a big weight belt -- with the 85s, the trim is easier, but I use a 6 lb v-weight with the Al plate, which I wouldn't need to remember if I were using SS . . .
But my final recommendation, and it is a strong one, is to cut costs on the other gear wherever you can, to make the purchase of a good canister light possible. (And they go for good prices, used, too -- I just bought a Salvo 21W LiIon for $500.) Especially if you are going to dive with team divers, the lights are a critical part of your communication and coordination underwater. They literally become a part of you; I had to dive without mine on Tuesday, and felt like I was out in public in my underwear
Prioritize that purchase over doubles, IMHO. You can work on skills, mindset, situational awareness and communication in a single tank, but the light is needed.
Blackwood
Contributor
I had a similar trim problem when I first went to a drysuit with steel doubles from a wetsuit with aluminum doubles: annoying head down trim. So I went to an aluminum plate to allow me to throw a bunch of weight south (10# belt, 3# tail pouch).
Once I had the drysuit figured out and was comfortable with the whole setup, I was able to go back to the steel plate and lose the belt (added 2 more to the tail pouch and a 3# soft "v" weight), using leg position to control trim.
I LOVE not having the belt.
OP
EgyptinMagicin21
Registered
First of all, thank you all for the responses, and I'm sure, continuing responses to my post.
Second, I want to apologize for making my initial statement about tech diving and a-holes. I didn't mean it the way it came out. I was a bit hesitant about even posting, because of the few tech divers I know on a first name basis...well, I just don't feel like I can even ask them about why they dive what they dive, and other options...etc.
I just want to learn as much as I can, and with all of this advice, I am learning a great deal, and will definitely re-do my initial allocation of money for my pieces of gear.
Thanks again everyone!
Second, I want to apologize for making my initial statement about tech diving and a-holes. I didn't mean it the way it came out. I was a bit hesitant about even posting, because of the few tech divers I know on a first name basis...well, I just don't feel like I can even ask them about why they dive what they dive, and other options...etc.
I just want to learn as much as I can, and with all of this advice, I am learning a great deal, and will definitely re-do my initial allocation of money for my pieces of gear.
Thanks again everyone!
+2 on used equipment. There are some really good deals out there. But having someone available to consult with who knows what is what is important to ensure you don't get something someone else rejected and that also will not work for you.
+1 on the Gary Gentile book. Just the mention of his name rubs many GUE types the wrong way as well as many very non GUE North East wreck diver types. His handbook is a bit dated and has some pictures of NE wreck diver configurations that are appalling (and hilarious) in a "wear it all where ever it fits" kind of way (which was often I think the intent) but it also has some very good information presented in a manner that explains the rationale behind the practice and makes/helps you think about the dynamically complex, systemic nature of technical diving configuration, practices and gas selection. His stuff on deco gas selection is I think particularly thoughtful.
Another thought that is often considered to be non-GUE is that I strongly beleive most students benefit from exposure to multiple instructors, multiple diving environments and even multiple agencies and philosophies as over the long term it lets them become exposed to other ways of doing things, other ideas and other ways to meet unique challenges or oiptimize their configurations and practices for specific environments.
If you take that path, you will find things you probably won't agree with based on prior training and experience but you will also pick up some valuable information and techniques and more importantly understand why other divers do it differently, even if you choose not to do it that way. The things you do adopt you can adopt without straying too far from a basic Hog/DIR configuration with the understanding that if and when you vary from it, you do so for very specific reasons that optimize your configuration for a specific dive or for the local conditions. A Jersey upline or some variation on the theme is a good example. It is considerd to be very non GUE by many GUE divers (who argue a spool can [might] work in the same situation) but it can be a real life saver in Mid Atlantic coast or NE wreck diving in areas with lots of current, big waves, rapidly changing weather, shipping lanes and surface visibility that can fall to near zero in a very short period of time.
+1 on the Gary Gentile book. Just the mention of his name rubs many GUE types the wrong way as well as many very non GUE North East wreck diver types. His handbook is a bit dated and has some pictures of NE wreck diver configurations that are appalling (and hilarious) in a "wear it all where ever it fits" kind of way (which was often I think the intent) but it also has some very good information presented in a manner that explains the rationale behind the practice and makes/helps you think about the dynamically complex, systemic nature of technical diving configuration, practices and gas selection. His stuff on deco gas selection is I think particularly thoughtful.
Another thought that is often considered to be non-GUE is that I strongly beleive most students benefit from exposure to multiple instructors, multiple diving environments and even multiple agencies and philosophies as over the long term it lets them become exposed to other ways of doing things, other ideas and other ways to meet unique challenges or oiptimize their configurations and practices for specific environments.
If you take that path, you will find things you probably won't agree with based on prior training and experience but you will also pick up some valuable information and techniques and more importantly understand why other divers do it differently, even if you choose not to do it that way. The things you do adopt you can adopt without straying too far from a basic Hog/DIR configuration with the understanding that if and when you vary from it, you do so for very specific reasons that optimize your configuration for a specific dive or for the local conditions. A Jersey upline or some variation on the theme is a good example. It is considerd to be very non GUE by many GUE divers (who argue a spool can [might] work in the same situation) but it can be a real life saver in Mid Atlantic coast or NE wreck diving in areas with lots of current, big waves, rapidly changing weather, shipping lanes and surface visibility that can fall to near zero in a very short period of time.
Yes, the H products are over-priced.
But try spending a small fortune on crappy gear that you end up replacing, and you will be willing to spend a little more to get something of quality that will last.
I have been through crappy Dive Rite lights, crappy OMS wings, crappy this, crappy that, and eventually gained a tremendous appreciation for quality gear that I don't have to keep replacing or sending back for warranty repair.
Pick your gear carefully.
But try spending a small fortune on crappy gear that you end up replacing, and you will be willing to spend a little more to get something of quality that will last.
I have been through crappy Dive Rite lights, crappy OMS wings, crappy this, crappy that, and eventually gained a tremendous appreciation for quality gear that I don't have to keep replacing or sending back for warranty repair.
Pick your gear carefully.
When I first started my technical training, the gear issue was (and still is) daunting. I was lucky enough to get into a training situation that was helpful to me in that regard, and perhaps you can find yourself in a similar situation.
I began training with an instructor who had some extra equipment for student use--enough for two students at one time. It was a new program he was trying to build, and I was one of his first students. We used his stuff completely at first, and we conferred with him on ideas for equipment choices. As we progressed, we each bought stuff a little at a time, as we could afford it.
As the program has grown, the more experienced students have also shared equipment to help the newer students. For example, we all store our tanks in the same area. If there is a tech training trip I will not be attending, I know my doubles (steel 108) will be going along to be used by a newer student who is where I was earlier. I won't be asked if it is OK, and I would not say no if I were asked.
As I grew in the sport, I scouted around and found some places where I could get stuff more cheaply. I made some better choices after I was in the sport a while than I would have made if I had bought everything up front.
One advantage of this approach (if you can swing it) is that you get a real taste for how intense this training can be before you spend too much on it. You may decide it really isn't for you.
I began training with an instructor who had some extra equipment for student use--enough for two students at one time. It was a new program he was trying to build, and I was one of his first students. We used his stuff completely at first, and we conferred with him on ideas for equipment choices. As we progressed, we each bought stuff a little at a time, as we could afford it.
As the program has grown, the more experienced students have also shared equipment to help the newer students. For example, we all store our tanks in the same area. If there is a tech training trip I will not be attending, I know my doubles (steel 108) will be going along to be used by a newer student who is where I was earlier. I won't be asked if it is OK, and I would not say no if I were asked.
As I grew in the sport, I scouted around and found some places where I could get stuff more cheaply. I made some better choices after I was in the sport a while than I would have made if I had bought everything up front.
One advantage of this approach (if you can swing it) is that you get a real taste for how intense this training can be before you spend too much on it. You may decide it really isn't for you.
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