Made in the USA

[Slonda828]

Nothing in this discussion has prevented people from typing the names of American scuba equipment manufacturers. The sad fact is that there aren't many, so that topic was pretty much exhausted after the first few answers that directly addressed the original question.

Right, so instead of letting it go we have to talk about a bunch of macro-ecky. Maybe this should be moved to the pub.

As for buying American, if it makes a guy or girl feel good to buy American, more power to them. I don't shop at Walmart or any corporate coffe shop, I patronize my local businesses (many of whom are my neighbors). That's my choice, just like it is the OP's choice to want to buy American. I also choose to drive only German cars, and that's my choice too.

 

[Sas]

Another fine example of a thread careening off topic. Maybe we could ask the manufacturers if their gear is made in America or not. Maybe one of the staffers could help us with that by allowing us a message in every individual manufacturer's forum without having to manually enter all the messages. I am not sure that is possible, but it is worth a shot. That would definitively answer the OP's question without a nine hour debate about macro-economics.

It's the internet. Threads go off-topic and generally I find that is a good thing

 

[vladimir]

Some American workers would be worse off but I don't believe the majority would be.

You have already conceded that free trade lowers living standards in the west. Which is it?

I agree that it is about thinking long term, as I have mentioned before, and the U.S. has not done so.

The United States is an economy of individual profit-maximizers, much as Adam Smith conceived. China is not. (You can't even buy Chinese Yuan!) Japan was not, 20-30 years ago. India is not. It's not really "free trade" we are discussing. We have a name for industries that cooperate on long-term strategy: combinations in restraint of trade--they are illegal.

 

[jswantek]

How is your individual example relevant to an entire country? It's not.

It is moreso than you would like to believe, ask anyone.

Playing an emotional card like that is pathetic. If you wish to know how New York, other terrorist attacks and the wars have affected me personally feel free to PM me and I will tell you, it is not something I will discuss in a discussion like this.

Wasn't me that brought up the war in the first place. I extend the same offer to you.

No your government did and I believe they were voted in by the people of the U.S?

...and if borrowing money from overseas was a ballot item, it would have been voted down. Yes, we put these people in office, but unfortunately we can't control their every action once they are in place. I wish we could, but we can't.

That is not how things work... You may as well wish for a big fairy to come and wave her magic wand and give everyone jobs.

That's not how things work NOW. Think long term, do you really think the majority of American voters are happy with our current economic situation? We have more urgent needs, like wanting to get back to work. Check the polls, Americans want their jobs back and are becoming increasingly more willing to do whatever it takes to make that happen.

 

[vladimir]

Right, so instead of letting it go we have to talk about a bunch of macro-ecky.

No, you don't.

 

[Sas]

You have already conceded that free trade lowers living standards in the west. Which is it?

No I didn't concede that, I said it would hurt a small proportion. If free trade is coupled with completely mobile labour, perhaps, but I don't think it will be. I think it will lower wages of some people but overall the benefits will outweigh the costs and living standards will be higher worldwide if free trade was to exist.

The United States is an economy of individual profit-maximizers, much as Adam Smith conceived. China is not. (yo ucan't even buy Chinese yuan!) Japan was not, 20-30 years ago. India is not. It's not really "free trade" we are discussing.

We are discussing other things as well as free trade. What is your point with this?

 

[gcbryan]

Anyone buying a Japanese car may have $2,000 in their pocket now, but when it needs parts or repairs, they're going to be paying a lot more for them in the long run.

How's that? My Japanese car has 150,000 miles on it and I've never had to replace the muffler.

Everyone I know with American cars has to pay much more after the original sale. Most people I know don't have American cars however for that reason.

What areas of the United States are benefiting from free trade? I'm unaware of any place that actually IS 'protected'.

Again, are we ACTUALLY being 'protected' from free trade? Doesn't seem like it to me. If things are better in Washington State, and there's a massive economic recovery going on, please let me know, I'm looking for a job.

I was referring to the higher level of "unionism" in your area. Many of the most depressed areas of our country now are in those areas of the country.

However, Boeing is unionized as well and Washington State lost one of the new commercial production lines to...South Carolina and it will not be unionized.

So, it's still American but it is not produced in Washington so how is that better for an out of work Seattle Boeing worker? It isn't. Everyone has to compete whether it's with S.C. or Europe.

 

[Sas]

It is moreso than you would like to believe, ask anyone.

What kind of rebuttel is this??

Wasn't me that brought up the war in the first place. I extend the same offer to you.

The war has cost the U.S. a lot of money. They won't win. The first is a fact, the second is my opinion. I was not discussing whether or not I support it or not or whether others should and I certainly did not bring it up so you could ask painful, inappropriate questions of me. In hindsight I should have left off the second part with my opinion to avoid this distraction.

...and if borrowing money from overseas was a ballot item, it would have been voted down. Yes, we put these people in office, but unfortunately we can't control their every action once they are in place. I wish we could, but we can't.

Well I don't agree with that. I don't know. I guess the alternative would have to be put to them and then I am not so sure what they would have done.

 

[vladimir]

What is your point with this?

You said that the U.S. has not thought long term:

I agree that it is about thinking long term, as I have mentioned before, and the U.S. has not done so.

From an industrial view, there is no such thing as a monolithic "U.S." thinking, long-term or otherwise. Individual profit-maximizers have to compete with each other or die; they often don't have the luxury of thinking long term. Contrast that with chaebols in South Korea, keiretsu in Japan, state-owned businesses in China--they have the luxury of thinking long term, and it has benefited them greatly. In other words, it is not a level playing field, and as long as the United States continues to compete with one hand tied behind its back, it will continue to lose market share and wealth.

 

[vladimir]

So, it's still American but it is not produced in Washington so how is that better for an out of work Seattle Boeing worker? It isn't. Everyone has to compete whether it's with S.C. or Europe.

The only reason those jobs are in South Carolina rather than Chengdu is because Boeing depends so much on sales to the US military.