Machine guns on the Great Lakes

[RPanick]

When I first heard of this, I though they were talking about putting on heavy weapons. If its just machine guns, hell that's not that big of a deal. I'm surprised that they even wanted the zones, seems like more trouble than its worth. If they want to go out 5 miles and fire off a machine gun, that's no big deal to me.

Now, duck hunters, they are another story, I stay well clear of them. I only wish they would go 5 miles off shore. They occassionally are only a little way off shore, we just hope they point out to the lake.

 

[Bill51]

When I first heard of this, I though they were talking about putting on heavy weapons. If its just machine guns, hell that's not that big of a deal. I'm surprised that they even wanted the zones, seems like more trouble than its worth. If they want to go out 5 miles and fire off a machine gun, that's no big deal to me.

Now, duck hunters, they are another story, I stay well clear of them. I only wish they would go 5 miles off shore. They occassionally are only a little way off shore, we just hope they point out to the lake.

They are in many places going from M-60s to twin .50s on special removable mounts that fit over the Sampson post on their RIBs. I guess you could call that a major weapons upgrade and they are going to be expected to fire them accurately at longer ranges. They also don’t talk about it much but they’re adding some small mini-guns to some of their interdiction helicopters and they’ll probably be practicing with them around the country too. They just head way out in the ocean around here to play with them.

 

[robzr]

I listened to some NPR & CBC coverage of this; some folks (namely the mayor of Cleveland) are getting upset about the lead content of the shells:

"While some have argued that environmental hazards would be negligible, the Globe and Mail reported yesterday that the live-fire training would deposit 3,100 kilograms of lead per year into the Great Lakes. “That's more lead than the entire state of Michigan and all of its industries and pollution sources emit to surface waters every year," says a spokesman for the Michigan Environmental Council."

(source: http://www.torontoist.com/archives/2006/10/machine_gun_dri.php)

I'm no pollution expert, but it seems to me that there should be some more public oversight/hearings. On one of the programs, some folks were playing up the stop-terrorist aspect of this....I thought we were in Iraq so we didn't have to fight them here, right?

Rob

 

[wb416]

I listened to some NPR & CBC coverage of this; some folks (namely the mayor of Cleveland) are getting upset about the lead content of the shells:

"While some have argued that environmental hazards would be negligible, the Globe and Mail reported yesterday that the live-fire training would deposit 3,100 kilograms of lead per year into the Great Lakes. “That's more lead than the entire state of Michigan and all of its industries and pollution sources emit to surface waters every year," says a spokesman for the Michigan Environmental Council."

(source: http://www.torontoist.com/archives/2006/10/machine_gun_dri.php)

I'm no pollution expert, but it seems to me that there should be some more public oversight/hearings. On one of the programs, some folks were playing up the stop-terrorist aspect of this....I thought we were in Iraq so we didn't have to fight them here, right?

Rob

If the Mayor of Cleveland is so indignant, why isn't he protesting the live firing out into Lake Erie that has happened for many many years at Camp Perry.

Brigades at a time of National Guard (both army and air) have done weapons qualifications (my unit went there every year I was in), shooting out over the lake.... and every year the NRA sponsors the Rifle Matches that last a few weeks pumping lead down range. This takes place about 70 miles to the west of the Mayor and is water that circulates to his water treatment plants.

It seems a bit like Don Quixote leaning on windmills in an election year to me.

 

[Notso_Ken]

Interesting. Just a quick look at the proposed zones raises some concern around Whitefish Bay and Port Sanilac areas. I dive there a lot but would have to look closer to see if the dive sites would fall inside those zone. Thanks for the heads-up.

I've been researching the CG website, and googling the 33CFR165 they cite, but have not been able to find the actual coordinates for the areas. I'd like to find those and take a look at how they line up (especially compared to like Port Sanilac, as it does seem to be awful close). Anybody find those coordinates?
Ken

Never mind - I found them. Anybody interested can go to:

https://www.piersystem.com/posted/443/CGD_09_06_123_Gunex_Safety_Zone_NPRM_71_FR_43402.131150.pdf

and they are in there. I'm going to do some comparisons when I get a moment...maybe this coming weekend.

Ken

 

[Oldpirate]

The maps are right here:
http://piersystem.com/go/doc/443/131145/
http://piersystem.com/go/doc/443/131144/
http://piersystem.com/go/doc/443/131148/
http://piersystem.com/go/doc/443/131143/
http://piersystem.com/go/doc/443/131141/
http://piersystem.com/go/doc/443/131146/

 

[wb416]

Seems odd that they have so many more "safe zones" for practice in Lake Michigan and it doesn't even share a border with Canada.

 

[bladephotog]

Here is a link to a story my paper did about it.

And another.

 

[wb416]

Here is a link to a story my paper did about it.

And another.

Thanks for the links Andy! The Coast Guard's POV is certainly a valid one.

Didn't realize that finkbeiner had been re-elected mayor of Toledo.... sorry to hear that!

 

[bladephotog]

Thanks for the links Andy! The Coast Guard's POV is certainly a valid one.

Didn't realize that finkbeiner had been re-elected mayor of Toledo.... sorry to hear that!

Yup, he's mayor again. It's a good thing and a bad thing. As a journalist he's much more interesting to cover than Ford. But then again, Carty will always be Carty.