Here is the scoup from PST. They say that they are not changing the ratings on their existing tanks. They are introducing a new tank (design changes) and discontinuing the existing LP and HP. The new tank will be rated for a higher presure. We are supposed to receive a fax with details. According to PST the DOT intends to crack down on shops who overfill LP tanks. All this is happening because they ( DOT and PST) are aware of the overfilling. Our Florida cave fills may go away and some of those providing them may end up in jail.
LP 95 too heavy if wet?
- Thread starter Mouth Breather old
- Start date
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Lost Yooper
Guest
With the gov't and lawyers involved... 
. I assume the price will follow suit and skyrocket too.
Mike
. I assume the price will follow suit and skyrocket too.Mike
raxafarian
Contributor
Yes.... let's pass more meaningless laws that are impossible to enforce:upset:
The laws are already there. It is a crime to overfill a tank. I may be wrond but I believe a federal crime. It seems they are considering enforcing it. This is not an uninforcable law just check into some of the stuff the BATF does. I don't yet know what but there is something about these tanks that is preventing them from receiving a higher presure rating. According to PST the tanks that have higher ratings over seas are different tanks. PST said they would fax us some info but I haven't received it yet. When I do I'll pass it on.
I am not stating my opinion just repeating what I was told by the manufacturer.
I am not stating my opinion just repeating what I was told by the manufacturer.
I just received a draft of the new tank specs from PST and spoke with them on the phone to ask a few questions The 3AA tanks are going away. The new tank will be stamped E9791 which is the same as the current HP tanks. At first glance it appears that it is the same tank with a new DOT number, however they tell me that they did have to make design changes to pass the required tests. They have trie to test the existing 3AA tanks to the E9791 spec and they repeatedly failed. Tht, of course does not mean that your tank will blow but it does mean that the don't measure up to the standards that have been set.
Here is the kicker...I am told that in part due to the Firestone tire thing the DOT is determined not to be ignored any longer. The feeling is that they will begin inforcing the existing laws. Manufacturers as well as the DOT are well aware of the "cave fill". It is not hard to find out who does it or catch them at it. PST tells me that a DOT agent can simply stand outside a shop waiting for someone to exit with a tank and sopena it on the spot. The violation, according to PST, carries a $250,000.00 fine or five years in prison. They say they prefer the money. Given that all one needs to do is get on the net and inquire about where to get a "cave fill" many of us could already be marked. It is the opinion of PST that the DOT will make an example of one of the big gas pumpers in Florida to prove they mean it.
Kind of scary. I don't make a nickle filling tanks so the thoght of being totally and permenantly ruined over one fill is not pleasant.
A gov agency that feels slighted is not a good bunch to get on the wrong side of.
We can always carry an extra stage,
Here is the kicker...I am told that in part due to the Firestone tire thing the DOT is determined not to be ignored any longer. The feeling is that they will begin inforcing the existing laws. Manufacturers as well as the DOT are well aware of the "cave fill". It is not hard to find out who does it or catch them at it. PST tells me that a DOT agent can simply stand outside a shop waiting for someone to exit with a tank and sopena it on the spot. The violation, according to PST, carries a $250,000.00 fine or five years in prison. They say they prefer the money. Given that all one needs to do is get on the net and inquire about where to get a "cave fill" many of us could already be marked. It is the opinion of PST that the DOT will make an example of one of the big gas pumpers in Florida to prove they mean it.
Kind of scary. I don't make a nickle filling tanks so the thoght of being totally and permenantly ruined over one fill is not pleasant.
A gov agency that feels slighted is not a good bunch to get on the wrong side of.
We can always carry an extra stage,
Lost Yooper
Guest
Thanks for posting that, Mike. Everything in this friggin' industry comes down to money. If they can show just one PST tank that was properly maintained that hurt someone as the result of filling to even 4000psi, I'd be very surprised. What a shame.
:upset:
Mike
Hey, is the owner of an overfilled tank also risking getting into trouble? I get my tanks filled from a privately owned (not a shop) compressor. I suspect so.
:upset:
Mike
Hey, is the owner of an overfilled tank also risking getting into trouble? I get my tanks filled from a privately owned (not a shop) compressor. I suspect so.
Mike,
I really don't know the answer to that. It is, however a crime to overfill a tank even for a non-shop filler. I don't know what the law says about the one who owns the tank. Could they call it solicitation or some crazy thing like that? With a private fill station they might just call you the filler. I'm just guessing of course. My guess is they will go after some of the big guys first, if they do anything.
Your right, I have never heard of a sreel tank rupturing. The testing is not always a good measure of how the device will actually perform. It will, however allow one tank to be compared to another. Obviously there is some amount of intentional over engineering. They do cycle testing as well as several other types of distructive testing where they blow them intentionally. The cycle testing is a constant fill/drain cycle. A tank is not used that way, it might get filled and sit for a long time before it is drained. PST says that the way we use them may be harder on the tank than the way they cycle test them.
I really don't know the answer to that. It is, however a crime to overfill a tank even for a non-shop filler. I don't know what the law says about the one who owns the tank. Could they call it solicitation or some crazy thing like that? With a private fill station they might just call you the filler. I'm just guessing of course. My guess is they will go after some of the big guys first, if they do anything.
Your right, I have never heard of a sreel tank rupturing. The testing is not always a good measure of how the device will actually perform. It will, however allow one tank to be compared to another. Obviously there is some amount of intentional over engineering. They do cycle testing as well as several other types of distructive testing where they blow them intentionally. The cycle testing is a constant fill/drain cycle. A tank is not used that way, it might get filled and sit for a long time before it is drained. PST says that the way we use them may be harder on the tank than the way they cycle test them.
Lost Yooper
Guest
It will be a tough thing to enforce on a mass scale, but not to make examples out of a few dive shops.
Oh well.
Mike
Oh well.
Mike
Scuba
Contributor
Not to be cynical here, of course.
But do you suppose this DOT raid is going to take place somewhere around the time of PST's new release of the New and Improved tank.
But do you suppose this DOT raid is going to take place somewhere around the time of PST's new release of the New and Improved tank.
That is cynical. IMO it's the onset of a raid that inspired the tank no the other way around. I don't think we will all dump our tanks and buy new ones. We want 140's of the size, shape and buoyancy of a 104 for cave diving. PST is giving us one that is not a crime for us to use.
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