Lost sight of buddies - tank came loose

[ZenDiver.3D]

"And if you release weights and BC at depth, how do you plan to control your ascent?"

The point was if my tank had disengaged from the valves I would have been without air and I would have had to lose the BCD and integrated weights and do an emergency ascent by using swimming fast fin-kicking ascent and slowly exhaling to minimize lung expansion. At the point where I became concerned I was ascending from 50 to about thirty feet so I don't think depth was an issue re getting up - but i would have sunk had I lost tank and not dumped gear

Not really. If your tank had somehow become disengaged from your reg, it would have sunk, leaving you positively buoyant or neutral. You would also have had some air expanding in your BC, so you would only ascend anyway. You would be surprised at slowly you will need to kick to do an ESA safely. You should be sinking , at any rate.

At the surface, you would orally inflate and be floating, even if you didn't drop your weights. Unless, you were very overweighted. That can also be a problem with new divers, and a whole other topic.

 

[iztok]

How did you do the weights check to ensure you were not overweight or underweight? It sounds to me it was a "trust dive":

Here is your equipment. We put all together put weights in it, you have plenty of air, turned the valve on etc... you just jump in and dive.

Which agency teaches such approach to diving?

 

[DevonDiver]

Which agency teaches such approach to diving?

This isn't an agency vs agency debate, so please don't twist it into one. Of course, no agency recommends such diving practices. edit: Iztok - sarcasm noted... remark retracted

People dive like this because:

1) They disregard and/or forget their training, once said training is completed.
2) They weren't taught properly, by an instructor who didn't fully communicate safe diving practises.
3) They dive with poor mentors and learn bad habits.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

This isn't an agency vs agency debate, so please don't twist it into one. Of course, no agency recommends such diving practices.

People dive like this because:

1) They disregard and/or forget their training, once said training is completed.
2) They weren't taught properly, by an instructor who didn't fully communicate safe diving practises.
3) They dive with poor mentors and learn bad habits.

Ummm, I Think he meant that sarcastically.. As in, no agency does that.

You are right on about your 3 reasons, though.

 

[iztok]

This isn't an agency vs agency debate, so please don't twist it into one. Of course, no agency recommends such diving practices.

People dive like this because:

1) They disregard and/or forget their training, once said training is completed.
2) They weren't taught properly, by an instructor who didn't fully communicate safe diving practises.
3) They dive with poor mentors and learn bad habits.

Sorry. I was being sarcastic.

 

[drbill]

I had this happen once on a night dive back when I was using a BCD with the ScubaPro metal bucket single strap. My buddies were descending rapidly and I could not catch up with them, and I had my video rig in my right hand limiting my ability to work on the tank strap. They eventually noticed I was lagging behind and one came over to help before I had to remove the BCD and fix it myself.

The reason my tank came loose was that in mounting it to the BCD at night, I didn't see that the free end of the strap had been clamped down as well, creating an insecure tank band.

After that I switched to a BCD (the old ScubaPro X-Tek harness) that has dual straps using cam buckles. No velcro other than to secure the free end. I prefer dual straps since I dive mostly solo and want to avoid having to take my BCD off to fix a single strap that has come loose.

 

[ronbeau]

"What was wrong with my skills and training, that attributed to this incident?
You didn't opt to resolve the slipped tank yourself. Why not?"

I was hovering at 50 feet initially and i don't know about you but I am not an octopus and I can't dislocate my shoulders to put my arms behind my back and re-attach the velcro that attaches the tank to my BCD which came apart underwater.



I have never been trained to remove my own gear underwater and the only people that I know of who were trained to do that were divers doing their DMTs

I was trained in quick release of BCD in an emergency (which this could have been had the tank come away)

My point is that i was using a new BCD and i didn't realise that the quick release involved clips that were in a different place so had I panicked I may have gone down because my training was *flick off the weight belt and unclip or inflate*

Had the tank become disconnected i wouldn't have been able to inflate (no air) and the weights would have been in my poskets and I hadn't been trained to release them quickly

it really is my fault. I descended with a new type of gear and was too polite in a way to bother the dive guys who were - frankly - always telling me to chill out

"Owning a chisel, hammer and drill doesn't necessarily make you a carpenter. Learning the basic OW skills doesn't make you a diver either" <--- DevonDiver

wtf does that mean?

I don't believe there was anything offensive in the advice given by DevonDiver.

As a matter of fact, it was quite constructive and objective.
I think he means that the OW training gives you the basics you need to make reasonable judgements in most situations.

Ditch and don were taught as part of my NAUI open water course.
I was certified in 2004.
It is my understanding that this should also be taught as part of the PADI OW course also. I am not sure which agency your instructor was affiliated with.

Having said that, ditch and don is usually taught on the bottom of the pool or on the surface and not in midwater.

I agree, that ditch and don at 50 fsw in the middle of the water column would not have been a very good idea given your background and the situation you described.

I do believe that you could have fixed this situation on the surface before getting back onto the boat. You could have ditched the BC and floated the BC on the surface, reattached the cylinder and donned the BC prior to getting back on the boat.

Then again if this was not covered in your OW course you might not have known you could actually do this.

I would not beat yourself up over this. You made it back to the surface safely and you are making a serious attempt to learn from the experience. You have been given some good advice from DevonDiver and others that you can digest and utilize going forward.

I would suggest you contact your OW instructor and have him/her go over ditch and don with you since they should have done this in your OW classes.

Try to incorporate the suggestion into your future dives.

 

[flots am]

"What was wrong with my skills and training, that attributed to this incident?
You didn't opt to resolve the slipped tank yourself. Why not?"

I was hovering at 50 feet initially and i don't know about you but I am not an octopus and I can't dislocate my shoulders to put my arms behind my back and re-attach the velcro that attaches the tank to my BCD which came apart underwater.

I have never been trained to remove my own gear underwater and the only people that I know of who were trained to do that were divers doing their DMTs

Remove and replace BC underwater should have been covered in OW class. I'm not sure which agencies actually still require it, but it should have been taught even if it's not a requirement for your agency. Once you get over the freaked-out part of "Holy sh**! I'm not wearing my BC!" you'll find that there's nothing to be anxious about at all.

It's slightly more difficult with a weight integrated BC, but not much. if you+BC are neutral when wearing it, you+BC will still be neutral when you take it off. The only difference is that it will tend to stay below you.

My question is - and I have been anxious about this since the event - could my tank have disconnected from the valves due to the fact it had come away from the velcro BCD attachment?

It's astonishingly unlikely that the tank would disconnect from the first stage, since the tank pressure jams the yoke screw pretty tightly.

It's also unlikely (although possible) that the second stage hose would come apart or that the second stage would break, so it's nothing to get really worked up over.

Also, FWIW, you should never dive with anything important that is only retained by velcro. Velcro is only suitable to holding stuff in position while you tighten a real fastener, or for use with stuff you don't care about losing.

flots.

 

[knowone]

Those flappy tank straps and most of their relatives are always dancing around almost everyehere you look and in almost every video you see. I secure mine with a couple of slices of bike tube.

Grip tightly your primary hose and the shoulder strap.
Wrap your occy and hose around the shoulder strap at the waist.
Etc etc.


Well handled.

Soup for you.

 

[Montana Diver]

Training up to AOW had no removal of gear training aside from emergency release of BCD and waist weights for an immediate ascent. I was wearing an integrated BCD

this thread was about whether the tank could have become unattached from the valves and it wasn't asking about the complications regarding losing the buddies.

Perhaps on of the best lessons to learn is in developing good pre-dive briefing with your buddy. On vacation, the buddy system is extremely lax. I have dived with some who jump in the water and disappear. I like to be within 10 feet of my buddy at all times. This allows us to point out animals and plants we see and if an OOA emergency arises or just a loose tank, my buddy can assist me. As a new diver, we sometimes incorrectly think that the DM is the babysitter and will be there in the event of an emergency. Prior to hitting the water, I always want to know where their octo is located and hopefully check that I can release it.

While I was doing my rescue class, BTW great class for every diver, I was paired up in an OW confined dive, practicing donating the octo while sitting on the bottom in the shallow end. The budgee holding the octo was caught on the mouthpiece ziptie resulting in an extremely long delay in me getting air. I waited while the student realized that this was a great time to give me his primary. We shared several breaths and I reached over and removed the tangled octo. I cannot imagine ever feeling this confident with a tropical vacation diver. One of the most important aspects of being a buddy is providing life support in the event that a failure occurs.

You appear to have gained great insight with this one incident. I am glad that you were lucky enough that your supposed buddies did not seriously injure you. I realize that you stated that your concern was in trying to ascertain the issues with a tank that fell off, however, a great buddy would have been able to fix the problem.

Pre-dive your expectations for what you want in a buddy. If they fail to deliver on the dive, you can request a new buddy for the next dive.