Lost Diver in Cozumel, Mexico, February 2016

[Pinecube]

I am a firm believer that divers should be able to safely ascend SOLO.

I am shocked that this is no longer a skill practiced in OW for a lost buddy situation.
Bob

I'm not understanding something, what's the difference between a 'buddy ascent' and a 'solo ascent'? The only difference I see is that you dont need to bother signalling 'up' to your buddy.

As for the training, in my OW class (PADI) we were taught a 5-point ascent and the instructors signaled "5" and "up" before every planned ascent we made.

 

[Ron Lee]

I'm not understanding something, what's the difference between a 'buddy ascent' and a 'solo ascent'? The only difference I see is that you dont need to bother signalling 'up' to your buddy.

Pinecube, doing an ascent solo may involve a higher stress level. Stress is best minimized to prevent making bad decisions. If a person has simulated a solo ascent under the supervision of a divemaster/instructor multiple times, then if they ever have to do it for real...or even alone with just a buddy....it improves the odds that they will do it safely and competently.

 

[DandyDon]

The suggestion for a private divemaster is one that I got from Blue XTSea some time ago. It makes sense but I doubt that dive shops will make it a common requirement or that almost all novice divers will see it and go that route to learn the skills that they need to dive safely on Cozumel.

Several of us who hang out on the Coz forum suggest that frequently, including you & me I think. Since Connie was reportedly experienced, it would have been more for the newbie buddy - but we suggest it to many who are reportedly experienced, but new to Cozumel drift diving.

What if the comment that there were two divemasters on the dive is true? Could one have stayed back to monitor the two women?

IFF there were two, non-dedicated DMs, it would seem prudent for the second one to stay with the last couple - especially since one was new, but that may well have been a misquote of the two crew members usually on a panga there - DM & captain.

 

[mmmbelows]

I understood your reference and you are right, it does happen and that doesn't mean that someone was at fault. When TS&M was suddenly lost without a trace it really made me understand that if tragedy can strike two such experienced divers - then it can happen anywhere and to anyone.

One incident doesn't paint everything that follows as subject to the whims of fate. It's quite one thing to be cold water diving with 4 feet of visibility and be tropical diving with 100 feet of visibility and consider that both are the same and that if something could happen in one that it can just as easily happen in another.

Regardless of the situation we are talking about it should not be assumed that the buddy separation caused the death of this diver, it only for certain caused the mystery of not knowing what happened. There is a chance that her buddy might have saved her life if the incident was one that was preventable or one that could be influenced by the buddy, but there is just as much a chance that it was a medical event, a stroke or heart attack that wasn't survivable and all the buddy would have done was assist in the body recovery. People die everyday not diving, they have strokes and heart attacks in bed or sitting in their chair watching TV, a buddy with them may not be in a position to prevent that death, the same with a buddy diving when someone has a medical event. I would hope no one places blame on this woman's young buddy for her death, the only thing that is certain is she is responsible for the mystery of not knowing what happened or the body recovery. that's unfortunate but it's not something this young person should carry guilt around for.

 

[Pelagicsal]

I'm not understanding something, what's the difference between a 'buddy ascent' and a 'solo ascent'? The only difference I see is that you dont need to bother signalling 'up' to your buddy.

As for the training, in my OW class (PADI) we were taught a 5-point ascent and the instructors signaled "5" and "up" before every planned ascent we made.

Buddy ascent would be the buddy team of two (or more) divers ascending together. Solo ascent would be only one diver ascending alone. A lone diver may be more stressed, depending on training and experience. Hope that answers your question.

I'm unfamiliar with the 5-point ascent.

 

[boulderjohn]

Nobody looks away for just a moment in those conditions and the other diver just disappears.

Sure they do.

You have a limited range of vision in scuba, but more importantly, you have many more places to look (up and down as well as all around) than you do on land.

Just a couple of days ago I was diving with two buddies, and they were not highly experienced. We reached the end of the dive and started our ascent together. One of the two looked at her gauges and for that moment slowed her ascent, meaning we went only a few feet shallower than she was at that time. When she looked for us, we were nowhere in her sight, although we were in reality only a few feet away. She was looking around frantically, and as she looked, she sank a little, making it worse. I went down and tapped her on the shoulder so she would know where we were.

What if, in those seconds she was looking around for me, I had had an uncontrolled ascent or descent? It would have been exactly as if I had disappeared in the few seconds it took for her to look at her gauges. She never would have found me. 100 foot visibility would not have helped a bit.

That is essentially what happened to Peter and Lynne. I have never dived with any buddy team as dedicated to or careful about the buddy system as they were. Peter clearly saw Lynne--visibility was not an issue. He looked away briefly, and when he looked back, she was gone.

 

[KathyV]

I know what it is like to suddenly lose sight of your buddy. I have previously mentioned on SB an incident off Cayman Brac 2 years ago. The mooring line had broken and suddenly there were divers in the water with no boat. The divemaster kept us together and we drifted and swam with the current (on the surface or just below) to the next mooring site where the boat was waiting for us. Everybody stayed calm and there were no incidents or panic.

But I almost lost my cool at the end. After we got to the boat we lined up to board one at a time. My husband had been right behind me and suddenly he was gone! I looked in every direction and I couldn't see him. I went down a bit to look for him but I still couldn't see him. I was close to panic. Then I popped up (we were just below the surface) and there he was - up on the deck of the boat looking calm and comfortable. I was glad that he was safe but I still wanted to kill him!

He said that he had been "right behind me and when we passed the ladder to get in line when it suddenly opened up, so took the opportunity to get up on deck" and that he "thought that I saw him" and was sorry that he scared me.

I reminded him that buddies should always let each other know what they are doing. I am glad that he was safe but I was really frightend for a few minutes.

So yes, you can lose sight of your buddy in just a moment.

 

[Ron Lee]

I think I found the Lynne/Peter event:

TSandM: Missing Diver in Clallam County, WA

It is a long thread and I do not recall ever seeing it before and at this point do not know the specifics. However, it does not seem to be a similar scenario to a Cozumel dive. It also appears to be very experienced divers which is not the case with this one.

Apparently the daughter was a novice diver and there is no proof that the mother was highly experienced or that she had dove in Cozumel before.

Let's assume for discussion purposes that the mom went missing for a few seconds and the daughter finally found her on the bottom about 50-60 feet below. If the mom needed assistance getting back to the surface. I do not think that it is reasonable to expect the daughter to provide that assistance if she only has a few dives.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

Let's assume for discussion purposes that the mom went missing for a few seconds and the daughter finally found her on the bottom about 50-60 feet below. If the mom needed assistance getting back to the surface. I do not think that it is reasonable to expect the daughter to provide that assistance if she only has a few dives.

Why do you think that is unreasonable?

Do you think OW divers are unprepared? Do you think OW divers should give up at the sign of any situation that they are unprepared for? I think this is a poor assumption or OW Certification has really gone down hill. You pick which one...

 

[lionfish-eater]

From a news release





COZUMEL, 17 February.- confirm the experts of the Attorney General of the State (PGJE), which conducted anthropological analyzes, the skull found in reefs "Tunich Wall" belonged to the American tourist Connie Greilak.
The coordinator of the Public Prosecutor's Office, Cristian Montenegro Aragon and Oscar Trejo Eduardo Ojeda, an expert in criminal, ascribed to the Attorney General of the State (PGJE) reported that based on the evidence of anthropology confirmed that the skull found on the reefs "Tunich Wall" belonged to foreign tourists Greilak Connie, who was 41 years old, disappeared last Saturday 13 of this month.
Giving the details, after informing the details of research they went through forensics , dental medical and forensic scientist, the bone of the skull underwent tests, dental expertise on the part of doctors dentists in Cozumel and the United States, after sending the dental history through the family.
in conducting the studies, it was out collating dubitable against indubitable radiography of the mandible on the right side, and to the similarities in their mortofolia teeth of the lower jaw and upper skull, he led to positive and be able to confirm the missing remains osteological, which showed no signs of violence.
thereby closing the investigation file 06/2106, however, this does not mean that you can fincar criminal liability Tour guides as the tourist, allegedly he left the group diving and could not come to the surface.
the remains will be delivered in the coming days to the daughter of the now deceased, and be taken to their home, which is presumed to have died drowned, and according to the decomposition of the body was eaten by marine animals, and found only that part.