Lost Diver in Cozumel, Mexico, February 2016

[peeweediver]

Leaving tomorrow on a 5:00 am flight to Coz with a group from our LDS. 24 people, about half, only have 15 dives or so. I realize that, even though this is supposed to be my vacation with long-time diver spouse, I am an instructor and now need to worry more. I am sad for the family, doubly sad for the daughter who was there and only hope she lets go of any guilt as time heals. Guess I'll be more watchful of my travel companions this week after reading this. Also, had no idea there were so many new divers until last week. Luckily, trips later in the year with much more experienced group so I can focus my worry on my buddy-spouse...as it should be.
We do walk a delicate balance in these tragedies between wanting to learn for prevention of future incidents and respecting that someone has died and a family is heart broken. Mostly, these posts have done that. Thanks.

Rob

 

[boulderjohn]

Waivers are one thing. What the dive operator's expectation of the role of the DMs they employ is another.

The purpose of the dive waiver is to protect the operator from a lawsuit in case a diver is lost. It will do everything it can to tell you that nothing is to be expected of them in terms of diver safety. That sort of language exists in all sorts of waivers and public statements. Read the instructions that come with your computer many of them come close to flat out telling you that using the computer on a dive will kill you. That way if you do die, they can say you were properly warned.

But no computer maker intends to make a computer that will kill you, and no dive operator who puts a DM in the water to lead the dive wants the reputation of having DMs who are not there to help when needed. I am quite sure every operator in Cozumel tells their DMs to watch the group carefully and be prepared to render assistance if needed.

As an instructor, I teach DMs from time to time. They have to get signed off for leading certified divers on an OW dive. When they do, I try to make sure that someone will "disappear" for a while so that I can see how long it takes the DM to react appropriately. We talk about the best methods for keeping track of divers who are trailing behind you, which in some cases is not easy.

If I were a dive operator in conditions similar to those in Cozumel, my DMs would understand that no matter what the waiver says, I expect them to ensure that every diver comes back both alive and happy after an excellent diving experience.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Geez, I wish I'd said that. Thanks John.

 

[mmmbelows]

Waivers are one thing. What the dive operator's expectation of the role of the DMs they employ is another.

The purpose of the dive waiver is to protect the operator from a lawsuit in case a diver is lost. It will do everything it can to tell you that nothing is to be expected of them in terms of diver safety. That sort of language exists in all sorts of waivers and public statements. Read the instructions that come with your computer many of them come close to flat out telling you that using the computer on a dive will kill you. That way if you do die, they can say you were properly warned.

But no computer maker intends to make a computer that will kill you, and no dive operator who puts a DM in the water to lead the dive wants the reputation of having DMs who are not there to help when needed. I am quite sure every operator in Cozumel tells their DMs to watch the group carefully and be prepared to render assistance if needed.

As an instructor, I teach DMs from time to time. They have to get signed off for leading certified divers on an OW dive. When they do, I try to make sure that someone will "disappear" for a while so that I can see how long it takes the DM to react appropriately. We talk about the best methods for keeping track of divers who are trailing behind you, which in some cases is not easy.

If I were a dive operator in conditions similar to those in Cozumel, my DMs would understand that no matter what the waiver says, I expect them to ensure that every diver comes back both alive and happy after an excellent diving experience.

Exactly, that's what I said, there is a baseline of responsibility which is avoiding negligence - avoid killing a guest. The rest is a business/marketing decision of the dive operator - make sure the clients have an excellent diving experience and the balance is the individual dive master's personality and level of personal service they believe in, combined with earning tips.

I look at one of the things everyone is probably familiar with - a dive master requesting a divers check on their air supply, this is for the dive master to keep a mental gauge on the gas tank of his group, it's not an example of the dive master relieving a client's responsibility of managing his air supply and dive time on the dive. However, some divers think it is. There's a thread recently with a diver who was so upset their husband ran out of air on the dive they bitched the dive master out to the point the dive op called the cops on them.

 

[gopbroek]

Leaving tomorrow on a 5:00 am flight to Coz with a group from our LDS. 24 people, about half, only have 15 dives or so. I realize that, even though this is supposed to be my vacation with long-time diver spouse, I am an instructor and now need to worry more.
Rob

With that high of percentage of 'new' divers I would seriously considered seeding them with some extra private DM's for the first few days at least. They run about $50 a trip and they will greatly reduce the task loading of the primary DM's and the other divers, both the inexperienced ones who are nervous and experienced ones like yourself who should be enjoying your vacation. I have always been amazed that on group trips or for that matter on cruise ships dives where there are a lot of new divers plus everyone is new to the operator and usually each other plus all keyed up for the trip that there are not more incidents. The task load on a DM at 8 or better to one is excessive. After a few days of diving and everything settles out then 8:1 is more realistic.

 

[MMM]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

A few off-topic posts have been deleted along with several that were more personal attacks and bickering. Please focus on this particular incident. As this isn't the first modpost I have made about staying on topic, repetitive behaviours may put offenders at risk more a loss of posting privileges. Marg, SB Senior Moderator.

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[Ron Lee]

Leaving tomorrow on a 5:00 am flight to Coz with a group from our LDS. 24 people, about half, only have 15 dives or so. I realize that, even though this is supposed to be my vacation with long-time diver spouse, I am an instructor and now need to worry more. I am sad for the family, doubly sad for the daughter who was there and only hope she lets go of any guilt as time heals. Guess I'll be more watchful of my travel companions this week after reading this. Also, had no idea there were so many new divers until last week. Luckily, trips later in the year with much more experienced group so I can focus my worry on my buddy-spouse...as it should be.
We do walk a delicate balance in these tragedies between wanting to learn for prevention of future incidents and respecting that someone has died and a family is heart broken. Mostly, these posts have done that. Thanks.

Rob

You really do need dedicated private divemasters for each novice buddy pair. Have the DM/instructor teach each pair how to handle currents, find the group if separated and ascend as a buddy team and simulated solo diver.

Consider having SMBs that at least can be inflated on the surface.

As far as this incident, maybe if the buddy team was not broken it would have ended differently. That is not assured since a novice diver has limited training in rescue skills. Perhaps the only way this could have ended better is with a private divemaster for the two women.

 

[nobbish]

Haven't there been 3 tiger shark attacks on divers at this dive site in the past 20 years? And the diver in question disappeared suddenly and only her skull was found a relatively short time later? I'm surprised no one has brought this up.

 

[DandyDon]

Haven't there been 3 tiger shark attacks on divers at this dive site in the past 20 years? And the diver in question disappeared suddenly and only her skull was found a relatively short time later? I'm surprised no one has brought this up.

Have you ever seen a tiger shark there? Regardless, I've never heard of anyone taken by a shark there.

 

[nobbish]

Have you ever seen a tiger shark there? Regardless, I've never heard of anyone taken by a shark there.

First, a woman was killed by a Tiger shark on Santa Rosa in 1993. Confirmed on this forum by both the instructor and the daughter of the victim. An American shark expert, who flew to Cozumel due to the incident, positively identified the species involved and it is the cause of death on the death certificate.

Here is the instructor's comment on this forum: Shark Attacks in Cozumel

Here is the daughter's: Shark Attacks in Cozumel

The same thread, along with arguably the most well kept log of shark attacks on earth, also discusses a 1997 incident at Santa Rosa where 2 divers were killed by a tiger shark. You can find the log here (rows 1913 and 1914 detail the 1997 incident and row 2174 details the 1993 incident): www.sharkattackfile.net/spreadsheets/GSAF5.xls

I don't understand why mentioning a shark immediately invokes such a response. They are out there and to answer your question, I have seen a Tiger Shark on the Mama Viña wreck just south of Playa del Carmen. I've also seen pictures a few times of ones that have been caught in Spanish local newspapers here in different areas along the coast. Not that that has anything to do with this whatsoever. Of course there are Tigers in tropical Caribbean waters: Tiger shark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The fact of this incident is that an experienced diver disappeared in what most would estimate to be 30 seconds or less (the time her buddy was not looking at her and/or with her). She was also having trouble descending. Considering if she were experienced, she'd almost certainly ascend to the surface after one minute and try to reunite with the group. If she had a medical condition and lost consciousness, she would have likely ascended sooner rather than later (she was having issues descending, which, unless she maintained neutral buoyancy while unconscious would likely bring her to the surface). There was, I believe, 72-96 hours of search and rescue on the surface and her only remains ended up on a dive site just offshore of the island. As such, why wasn't she found on the surface during all that searching?

To answer that question, I am simply bringing up the possibility that she did not surface, that she could have possibly been attacked on a dive site that has seen 3 fatal attacks on scuba divers in the past.

Lastly, they only found her skull. What else in the waters there is capable of separating a head from the rest of the body?

Again, I'm not trying to do anything here other than bring up a possibility.