Looking to Buy a Rebreather

[lostsheep]

If I were thinking another (and I am), next one I'll be looking at is the Choptima. But the cavers will have other info for you for that environment. For me, for wrecks, back mounting small doubles and adding the chest mount would be maybe a good solution for passageways.

NorCal needs more Choptima divers...DO IT!

ETA: if you see someone diving a Choptima in NorCal, it’s very likely me, I only know of one other. Come say hi, I’m more than happy to let you check it out in person if we cross paths.

 

[rjack321]

I have a sidewinder and maybe 125-150 coldwater hours on it. It was my second unit after a 2.7v Meg.

I would not recommend the sidewinder to anyone except a serious cave explorer who recognizes the MANY drawbacks. The worst of which is every drop of spit, water and lungbutter slop goes directly into the exhale counterlung. There are many other issues, especially for cold water divers. The inaccurate sorb numbers which KISS can't seem to even acknowledge and the complete lack of any scrubber duration testing, I could go on and on. Unless you actually NEED this particular model I would steer far far away. As a first CCR its the probably one of the worst 3 choices you could make.

 

[SentinelAce]

I have a sidewinder and maybe 125-150 coldwater hours on it. It was my second unit after a 2.7v Meg.

I would not recommend the sidewinder to anyone except a serious cave explorer who recognizes the MANY drawbacks. The worst of which is every drop of spit, water and lungbutter slop goes directly into the exhale counterlung. There are many other issues, especially for cold water divers. The inaccurate sorb numbers which KISS can't seem to even acknowledge and the complete lack of any scrubber duration testing, I could go on and on. Unless you actually NEED this particular model I would steer far far away. As a first CCR its the probably one of the worst 3 choices you could make.

Really appreciate the feedback! James Draker gave me a lot of this. Very impressed with him! Still trying to figure out which one. XCCR is on the radar.....

 

[davehicks]

I have a KISS Sprit LTE which is basically the back mounted older sibling of the Sidewinder. Same basic parts, different configuration. I don't know about whatever "lies" these folks are talking about or the bashing of KISS's cold water performance might be. I can tell you a few things after doing well over 500 cold water dives on a KISS Sprit.

• The scrubber duration is about 4 hours. I routinely do 3 dives and runtime of 4 hours on my scrubber with no problems in 45-55F water.
• Water in the counter lungs is not a significant issue. If you somehow get enough in there to gurgle during the dive, just remove the lung and empty it. Recheck your pos/neg if you got that much water. I rarely see more than a few tablespoons worth in each lung after 4 hours.
• The exhale loop will also collect condensation, and your training should include how to quickly drain it after each dive.

My experience with KISS has been great since 2007 and well over 1000 dives on a couple of their units. Very few failures of resulting in missed dives. Maybe 5 or 6 times in a 1000 dives. Most of those were 1st stage failure, loop hose with a hole, user error let water into the BOV, and a leaky MAV that I too left too long between service intervals. Almost every other issue encountered could be addressed on the spot with basic tools and spares.

I've seen many friends with ECCR units experience far more failures on far fewer dives.

Don't be pushed away from the unit by internet anecdotes. Go ahead and try a few units and talk to people that dive them in person.

 

[SentinelAce]

I have a KISS Sprit LTE which is basically the back mounted older sibling of the Sidewinder. Same basic parts, different configuration. I don't know about whatever "lies" these folks are talking about or the bashing of KISS's cold water performance might be. I can tell you a few things after doing well over 500 cold water dives on a KISS Sprit.

• The scrubber duration is about 4 hours. I routinely do 3 dives and runtime of 4 hours on my scrubber with no problems in 45-55F water.
• Water in the counter lungs is not a significant issue. If you somehow get enough in there to gurgle during the dive, just remove the lung and empty it. Recheck your pos/neg if you got that much water. I rarely see more than a few tablespoons worth in each lung after 4 hours.
• The exhale loop will also collect condensation, and your training should include how to quickly drain it after each dive.

My experience with KISS has been great since 2007 and well over 1000 dives on a couple of their units. Very few failures of resulting in missed dives. Maybe 5 or 6 times in a 1000 dives. Most of those were 1st stage failure, loop hose with a hole, user error let water into the BOV, and a leaky MAV that I too left too long between service intervals. Almost every other issue encountered could be addressed on the spot with basic tools and spares.

I've seen many friends with ECCR units experience far more failures on far fewer dives.

Don't be pushed away from the unit by internet anecdotes. Go ahead and try a few units and talk to people that dive them in person.

WOW! very good input. Divers talk has me hooked lol. They dive KISS. I have nearly a 1000 dives under my belt and ready for more time

 

[grantctobin]

I have a KISS Sprit LTE which is basically the back mounted older sibling of the Sidewinder. Same basic parts, different configuration. I don't know about whatever "lies" these folks are talking about or the bashing of KISS's cold water performance might be. I can tell you a few things after doing well over 500 cold water dives on a KISS Sprit.

• The scrubber duration is about 4 hours. I routinely do 3 dives and runtime of 4 hours on my scrubber with no problems in 45-55F water.
• Water in the counter lungs is not a significant issue. If you somehow get enough in there to gurgle during the dive, just remove the lung and empty it. Recheck your pos/neg if you got that much water. I rarely see more than a few tablespoons worth in each lung after 4 hours.
• The exhale loop will also collect condensation, and your training should include how to quickly drain it after each dive.

My experience with KISS has been great since 2007 and well over 1000 dives on a couple of their units. Very few failures of resulting in missed dives. Maybe 5 or 6 times in a 1000 dives. Most of those were 1st stage failure, loop hose with a hole, user error let water into the BOV, and a leaky MAV that I too left too long between service intervals. Almost every other issue encountered could be addressed on the spot with basic tools and spares.

I've seen many friends with ECCR units experience far more failures on far fewer dives.

Don't be pushed away from the unit by internet anecdotes. Go ahead and try a few units and talk to people that dive them in person.

How much sorb does your spirit hold?

 

[davehicks]

How much sorb does your spirit hold?

At least 4 hours worth. I have not weighed it before, I think it's 5+ lbs. Weight probably varies from 812 or 408. Not sure it matters, the scrubber efficiency and design plays a big role in run time so comparing between units is not that enlightening. I like that these units have two scrubbers in line that the gas must flow through. You can always tell when dumping that the exhale side may look exhausted and the inhale side is still fairly fresh after 3-4 hours.

 

[Southside]

I have a sidewinder and maybe 125-150 coldwater hours on it. It was my second unit after a 2.7v Meg.

I would not recommend the sidewinder to anyone except a serious cave explorer who recognizes the MANY drawbacks. The worst of which is every drop of spit, water and lungbutter slop goes directly into the exhale counterlung. There are many other issues, especially for cold water divers. The inaccurate sorb numbers which KISS can't seem to even acknowledge and the complete lack of any scrubber duration testing, I could go on and on. Unless you actually NEED this particular model I would steer far far away. As a first CCR its the probably one of the worst 3 choices you could make.

What are the other two units that you would recommend avoiding as a first rebreather?

 

[rsingler]

XCCR is on the radar...

XCCR was my other choice when I was looking. I eventually went in favor of the less bling'y JJ.
The X had too many plastic bits with pretty PVD chrome. I was less impressed with the battery compartment o- ring seal. But more important, the space inside the can is huge. I am dumping liters of expansion on ascent with my JJ. I think the X might be 50% more. One more buoyancy issue to deal with...
But very high tech. I'll grant you that.

 

[tbone1004]

@rjack321 meant exhale scrubber, I'm sure it was a late night typeo. Unit only has one counterlung, but it is a very distinct drawback IMO.