Looking for stiff, negative fins

[tbone1004]

Might want to check out the turtle fins (now made by xs scuba). Similar to jets but the foot pockets are roomier. I found jets squeezed my feet quite a bit when sitting on the surface after a dive.

Also agree you might want to go over proper weighting on your course. Ideally you shouldn't need ankle weights..

stiff is not a word I've ever heard anyone use to describe turtle fins...

 

[runsongas]

the new turtles flex about the same as new jetfins. the older jetfins (that say made in the USA) seem stiffer than newer jetfins to me though

 

[Brett Hatch]

3lbs ankles + 2lbs camband + 20lbs belt + 6lbs BP = 31 lbs. You're definitely carrying way too much weight. I need abut 27 lbs total diving dry. I'm 6" shorter than you, but carrying more bioprene (which I'm working on getting rid of).

Hmm, well I did try with 4 lbs less and was buoyant at the end of the dive. By squeezing the suit a lot, I was able to hold depth without working too hard, but it was not comfortable and cold -- would much rather lug around a few lbs of lead than deal with that much squeeze. However like you and @tbone1004 suggested, maybe I have a big bubble in the leg area wasting buoyancy. Will have to pay special attention to it next time to see.

quick question; you mentioned earlier that you didn't take a drysuit class yet right? Make sure you have an experienced drysuit diver showing you the tips and tricks, that migth make a big difference.
For example, do you know how to get rid off all the excess air in the suit before the dive?
Basically, after putting on the suit but before kitting up, drop on 1 knee, use your hands to carefully open the neckseal a bit and use your elbows to push the suit to your body. This way, you get rid of all air pockets that keep you afloat.
It might make a big difference on how much weight you need.

After that, make sure to do a proper weight check before the dive and another one at the end of the dive. Don't push any limits on those first few dives, rocketing to the surface upside down with all the gas in your legs isnt cool... ;-)

I don't regularly dive with anyone in dry suits, but haved picked up a little here and there when I have dived with them. Like the kneel + neckseal technique for example I have seen before, and employ. Learned how to get out of a feet-up position from a YouTube video -- basically you bring your knees to your chest rapidly, which causes your whole body to rotate closer to flat trim. Tried it out a few times, it worked. Have not yet attempted it while very buoyant and task loaded etc, but the easy case wasn't bad at all.

I started diving dry last year. I love my D6 fins [...] If D6 ever comes out with a negative fin, I'd be thrilled to give them a shot.

Dude, same. The D6 fins are awesome. I did see a post on their FB page around 6 months ago saying that they purchased their own injection molding machine, and suggested new Eddy options are coming some day. Not sure if "options" just refers to newfangled colors, but maybe they can introduce denser materials. I don't know, and do not intend to spread rumors here, but that would definitely be cool. Edit: here's the FB post

Also agree you might want to go over proper weighting on your course. Ideally you shouldn't need ankle weights..

Yep, getting rid of the ankle weights is the whole idea here. The damn things are just annoying. I don't think i've ever seen an experienced diver using ankle weights (I'm sure there's 1 or 2 out there). Seems like denser fins are universally preferred over ankle weights, wherever possible.

Consensus seems to be
1) Try my buddy's Hollis F1 fins
2) Try to identify if the root cause is actually an air bubble in the legs
I'll be giving those a shot whenever I can get out there next. Thanks for all the advice!

 

[rob.mwpropane]

the new turtles flex about the same as new jetfins. the older jetfins (that say made in the USA) seem stiffer than newer jetfins to me though

I can only assume that my Jets (in the previously posted picture) were older for as cheap as I got them. They felt like wet noodles (but fixed the floaty feet feeling, so were bearable). I expressed my issue with them to someone who had both the Hollis F1's and a new pair of Jets. He said his Jets were stiffer, but less comfortable than F1's. His choice was the F1's also. (Maybe he can chime in @stuartv) instead of me butchering what I remember as fact, lol.

I have no experience with newer Jets, but would assume the "formula" for any fin has changed over the years. Since Jets have been around forever, I would assume they changed the most.

Hmm, well I did try with 4 lbs less and was buoyant at the end of the dive. By squeezing the suit a lot, I was able to hold depth without working too hard, but it was not comfortable and cold -- would much rather lug around a few lbs of lead than deal with that much squeeze. However like you and @tbone1004 suggested, maybe I have a big bubble in the leg area wasting buoyancy. Will have to pay special attention to it next time to see.



I don't regularly dive with anyone in dry suits, but haved picked up a little here and there when I have dived with them. Like the kneel + neckseal technique for example I have seen before, and employ. Learned how to get out of a feet-up position from a YouTube video -- basically you bring your knees to your chest rapidly, which causes your whole body to rotate closer to flat trim. Tried it out a few times, it worked. Have not yet attempted it while very buoyant and task loaded etc, but the easy case wasn't bad at all.



Dude, same. The D6 fins are awesome. I did see a post on their FB page around 6 months ago saying that they purchased their own injection molding machine, and suggested new Eddy options are coming some day. Not sure if "options" just refers to newfangled colors, but maybe they can introduce denser materials. I don't know, and do not intend to spread rumors here, but that would definitely be cool.



Yep, getting rid of the ankle weights is the whole idea here. The damn things are just annoying. I don't think i've ever seen an experienced diver using ankle weights (I'm sure there's 1 or 2 out there). Seems like denser fins are universally preferred over ankle weights, wherever possible.

Consensus seems to be
1) Try my buddy's Hollis F1 fins
2) Try to identify if the root cause is actually an air bubble in the legs
I'll be giving those a shot whenever I can get out there next. Thanks for all the advice!

How many ds dives have you done? We all have to start somewhere, I don't have all that many, but every dive gets easier and I'm still changing things up.

I would try your buddy's F1's for sure. The air bubble trapped in the foot should go away with practice. I used to feel my foot swell up with air, but's that's all gone away with practice.

 

[Brett Hatch]

I can only assume that my Jets (in the previously posted picture) were older for as cheap as I got them. They felt like wet noodles (but fixed the floaty feet feeling, so were bearable). I expressed my issue with them to someone who had both the Hollis F1's and a new pair of Jets. He said his Jets were stiffer, but less comfortable than F1's. His choice was the F1's also. (Maybe he can chime in @stuartv) instead of me butchering what I remember as fact, lol.

I have no experience with newer Jets, but would assume the "formula" for any fin has changed over the years. Since Jets have been around forever, I would assume they changed the most.



How many ds dives have you done? We all have to start somewhere, I don't have all that many, but every dive gets easier and I'm still changing things up.

I would try your buddy's F1's for sure. The air bubble trapped in the foot should go away with practice. I used to feel my foot swell up with air, but's that's all gone away with practice.

I'm up to 3 . And yes, I have found it to be easier every time. Buoyancy control, trim, gas consumption, everything. It is certainly the case that I have skills problems with skills solutions. I guess with that in mind, it's hard to say if I have gear problems as well at this point, so maybe I'm jumping the gun here w/ looking for new fins.

 

[sea_ledford]

Sounds to me like you have some significant air trapping, leading to over weighting, leading to over inflated wing and or suit. What suit do you have?

We are the same height, but I've got about 40 lbs of body wieght on you. Last time I dove dry in California, I think I had 14 lbs, plus a steel BP and steel 100 tank (I think? it might have been a weird steel 80 or old 72). So about 25ish lbs. I was wearing medium weight polypro undergarments and a compressed neoprene suit.

Unless you are wearing huge fluffy undergarments, you sound way over weighted.

 

[stuartv]

I haven't read the whole thread. I can just say that I don't own Jet fins, but I did borrow a pair from a buddy for one wreck dive down in NC. They felt stiffer than Deep6 fins, to me. Definitely felt stiffer than my Hollis F1 fins.

I did not like them because of the shape of how they fit on my foot and how I was getting foot cramps (not leg cramps) while using them - and not even finning hard. Just normal frog kicking.

In contrast, the F1 fins are 2# negative (pair of size XL - in fresh water). They give me what I want, in terms of combating floaty feet in a drysuit. The foot pockets on them are very comfortable. They come with a very nice spring strap. They give good power. And they are the best fins I have tried for power in back finning.

If you try the Hollis F1 and they are somehow too negatively buoyant for you, then try the the Hollis F1 LT fins. They are 1# negatively buoyant (pair of size Regular, in fresh water), and basically the equal of the non-LT fins otherwise.

 

[sea_ledford]

I'm up to 3 .

Oh, yeah... don't buy anything yet. My third drysuit dive was in a tech class (pre-req: 20 dives in a dry suit. Pshh, who needs that!). I was a complete disaster. And I had thousands of dives under my belt at that point. I didn't really start to feel comfortable in a drysuit until, annoyingly, about 20 dives in.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

I'm up to 3 . And yes, I have found it to be easier every time. Buoyancy control, trim, gas consumption, everything. It is certainly the case that I have skills problems with skills solutions. I guess with that in mind, it's hard to say if I have gear problems as well at this point, so maybe I'm jumping the gun here w/ looking for new fins.

I'll echo what others have said and say more dives would sort a lot, but my 1st change was to a more negative fin from the D6 and it cured the issue. By dive 10 you'll be on a whole new set of issues

 

[stuartv]

I went back and re-read the OP.

There are a lot of things I might agree with saying "wait on that until you get more experience". This issue of fins in your drysuit is not one of them.

From the details in the OP, I would say try the regular F1 fins ASAP. I suspect they will work well for you. At least, they will not make you foot heavy, I don't think. And if they do, that just lets you let a little air into your feet to compensate.

If they are comfy and work for you, then don't waste more time on the Deep6 fins. Get some F1s. If you really don't want all black, they have the Yellow Tip option.

Mine are all black, but I got red and white Scotchlite reflective trailer safety tape and put it on mine. It has stayed on, no problem, for years now. The red is still there. The white finally came off just in the last couple of months. The reflective white (on the bottoms) has definitely helped my buddies to keep track of me in very low viz water. The yellow tips do a similar job (I say after diving with buddies in the past that have those).