Looking for stiff, negative fins

[Brett Hatch]

Hi. I currently use Deep6 Eddy fins, which are similar to stiff tech fins, but made of plastic (EDIT: actually light rubber) so they are neutral (they float in salt water, but sink with a double-ender on them). They work great for my wetsuit config, they're as comfortable as can be, and come in bright colors, yay.

I have recently acquired a dry suit w/ 3mm socks, and have been diving with 5mm Deep6 booties. Still working on buoyancy skills and getting my weighting correct, but I have found my feet to be pretty consistently floaty. Gonna try 3mm booties instead of 5mm booties, maybe that will do the trick, but I don't think it will be enough.

Last dive I had a steel tank, steel backplate, 2 lbs of lead in lower camband trim pockets, and about 20 lbs lead on the belt. Also, right now I'm using 3 lbs total in ankle weights (BARF). Trim was OK, but the belt was a bit annoying on the surface, it would be more convenient to move some of the lead into more pockets. That will move my center of mass even further from my feet, worsening the trim issue. I would like to dump the ankle weights if at all possible.

I think the solution will come in the form of heavier fins. Here are my priorities, in order:
1) Stiff like the D6 (which is more or less a plastic SP JetFin knockoff, but I cannot speak to relative stiffness to other fins)
2) Denser than salt water
3) Comfortable
4) Spring strap -- no buckles, no bungees, no rubber
5) Colors -- anything but black
6) Buy from LDS
7) Price

My main dive buddy uses Hollis F1 fins. Whenever we get out to dive next, I was thinking maybe we could trade for a dive so I can test them out. He finds them to be stiff, dense, and comfortable, they come in non-black, and a LDS sells them.

Should I be looking at other models as well, or if these work just go for it?

 

[tbone1004]

Deep6 Eddy's are not made of plastic as an FYI. It is a synthetic rubber that happens to be neutrally buoyant. They are also not knockoffs of the Jetfin *which were not the first fin of that design*, they are vastly superior to jet fins in quite literally every aspect. More durable, more comfortable, better foot pocket, stiffer, better buckle system, it's a major evolution of that design, anything but a knockoff.

3mm booties are not going to make any appreciable difference.
Your weighting sounds like it's way too much and you likely have too much in gas in your feet.

The only fins that are going to tick most of those boxes are Hollis F1's. They're not cheap, and the only color option ever available to my knowledge was yellow tips. No other fin on the market is stiff and dense. Jet Fins are close ish, but they're quite flimsy, especially in the big sizes compared to the F1's

 

[Marie13]

ScubaPro Jet fins are very heavy and very stiff. Be warned the sizing is weird. I wear a size 7 women's shoe and take a XS in wetsuit booties. I had to go up to a large in Jets.

Why are you putting weight on your lower camband? It's normally the top camband. Then only put some on your bottom one if needed. I've never heard of someone putting weight on lower armband first.

Your heavy fin choices are going to come down to Jets or Hollis F1.

The Jets do come in different colors. I forgot you prefer to make the eyes of your dive buddies bleed.

 

[SandyRobinson]

SP Jets.

 

[runsongas]

yellow tip hollis f1s

 

[phoque]

I have both XDeep EX-1 and Mares Power Plana that are negative and pretty stiff. The XDeep come in three stiffness levels (I use medium) but are only available in black to my knowledge. Also the largest size (XL) which I have is too small to accommodate my neoprene socks/rock boot combo (I am about 11.5 shoe size), so this may also be a concern depending on your size.
For drysuit diving, I use the Power Plana in XXL. They are not as negative as F1s, but work well for me. They come in light gray (which I have) and blue camo in addition to black.

 

[Brett Hatch]

@tbone1004 thanks for the corrections, I did not realize that D6 were actually rubber -- being colorful and neutral, I assumed they were plastic. Don't want to say not-nice things about them or spread misinformation here. I definitely love my D6 fins, they beat my old fins by a long shot. Do I take your implication correctly, that this might be more of a skills issue regarding keeping too much air in my feet/legs? That would not surprise me much, since I've only dived dry a few times, and did not take a class.

@Marie13 I'm not sure what the usual procedures are for trim pocket weight allocation. But if the issue I am facing is floaty feet, I can't see how putting more weight closer to my head would help. Have I misunderstood you? As for the eye-bleeding, yeah, the bloodier the better as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Marie13]

@tbone1004 thanks for the corrections, I did not realize that D6 were actually rubber -- being colorful and neutral, I assumed they were plastic. Don't want to say not-nice things about them or spread misinformation here. I definitely love my D6 fins, they beat my old fins by a long shot. Do I take your implication correctly, that this might be more of a skills issue regarding keeping too much air in my feet/legs? That would not surprise me much, since I've only dived dry a few times, and did not take a class.

@Marie13 I'm not sure what the usual procedures are for trim pocket weight allocation. But if the issue I am facing is floaty feet, I can't see how putting more weight closer to my head would help. Have I misunderstood you? As for the eye-bleeding, yeah, the bloodier the better as far as I'm concerned.

I'm sorry, I misread. But still, spreading out your weight is not a bad idea.

20lbs on belt, 2lbs in trim pockets, 6lb backplate? Are the 20lbs on your BC harness belt or on a weight belt?

Try this: 7 lbs on each hip, 14 total on BC belt/weight belt. 6lbs on top camband. 4 lbs on bottom camband.

This is what worked for me. I cannot get air in my feet if I wanted to. My Fusion drysuit fits very closely on my legs. Getting weight off my harness belt (I now use a DUI weight harness) helped a great deal. Plus not having all that weight on your rig (if it is and you're not using a weight belt) makes it easier to handle.

I agree with @tbone1004 that you probably have too much air in your legs/feet. Does your drysuit fit properly - not too big? It does sound like you're wearing too much lead, as well. If you don't want to take a drysuit class, some mentoring with a more experienced drysuit diver would be a good idea.

 

[ToneNQ]

There's some good threads on here about fin buoyancy, but the SP jet is heavier and then Hollis F1 would be the most negative.

But agree with Tbone, you sound heavy. 25lbs plus steel, you must bob like a cork without your gear on.

 

[Brett Hatch]

@Marie13

I'm using a MAKO rubber belt with a whole bunch of 2-pounders strung onto it:

You can see the little gap in the middle, that's to leave space for my crotch strap in the back. So it distributes the weight along my hips, perhaps with a slight bias toward the rear. It works great when I put 8-10 lbs on it to dive wet, but with 20 lbs it's noticeably more saggy when walking around on the surface. Not too bad, but a little annoying.

It very well could be that I am taking more weight than necessary. I got here by taking the ballast I use while diving wet (8mm single piece), and adding 11 lbs. That setup was 2 lbs in the trim pockets, 16 lbs on the belt, 3 lbs ankle weights. Felt OK at the start, but underweighted when my tank got down to 40 or 50%. So I slapped on a few more pounds and ended up at 2 in the pockets, 20 on the belt, which brings me up to +15lbs lead vs wet. With that weighting, I was able to hold my depth even in the 3-4' range with the tank below 1/3.

If the suit is too loose in the legs, then I could see getting a big bubble there, which would contribute both to head-down trim and to needing more lead overall. In that case, maybe a better fix would be having the suit modified to take it in a bit in the legs, or gaiters. Next time I'm out I will pay special attention to my legs, and see if there's a lot of air in there. As for the class, I'm not opposed to it, just kinda thought I would see if I can figure it out by myself, then take a class if I still need help. In the scheme of things, it's not like $150 or $200 or whatever for a class is a big deal.

@ToneNQ I haven't yet tried removing my rig in the water, but yeah I might be a bit buoyant without it. Rig would be roughly 16 lbs negative with full tank + empty wing. But if me + the rig were neutral at a given depth, I think separately the rig and myself would be somewhat close to neutral, since we both have some air and some ballast. Not sure, maybe I'll give it a try.