Looking at ScubaPro...

[DA Aquamaster]

I am new to diving and I am in the process of helping establish a search and recovery team with the fire department I work for. The question I was wanting to ask is this, if money was not a factor and you wear diving murky water in the 50 – 80 degree temp range, what reg and bc would you buy. We are looking at the scubapro mk25/x650 reg and either the knighthawk or rec tec bc. Any input will be greatly appreciated

Around here rescue diving is freshwater and almost by definition, very murky with lots of sand, silt and suspended particles. Both the Mk 2 and Mk 16 do very well in this environment. The Mk 25 is also going to be fine, particularly with the latest version with large holes in the ambient chamber making post dive rinsing an easy thing to do, but it is still going to be overkill and more complex than the job requires unless you are going deeper than 130 ft.

 

[yknot]

I've just been looking at piston designs really. I looked at Apeks but where would I get it serviced? In So. Fla. I can get the SP serviced easily and that's a selling point to me. Since all of my diving will be in warm water, I thought piston was the way to go, no?

I would think that as Apeks are now distributed in the US by Aqualung that they are as easily serviced as anyone else. In my area at least, Aqualung equipment is far more prevelant than ScubaPro. Personally, I would never buy anything from ScubaPro because I find their marketing strategies indefensible.

 

[uberspeed]

So...is their a preference to piston designs in warm waters? Have I been reading/hearing hogwash?
I agree thet their marketing (pricing) strategies are rough, but their warranty is nice to have, IMHO. Perhaps I'm just new and too nearsighted? Is the warranty they offer not worth it?
In the motorcycle industry the same thing happened with Arai (arguably one of the best helmet manufacturers) pulling all internet sales and they will not warrant anything purchased online. I will not buy their products because I feel it's idiotic of them. Perhaps I should take the same attitude with ScubaPro and look at Apeks instead. If I find LDS's that service them I will definitely look into them. Thanks for opening my eyes.

 

[uberspeed]

After perusing Apeks' site I find no mention of a warranty program or service schedule. That kinda scares me really...

 

[yknot]

So...is their a preference to piston designs in warm waters? Have I been reading/hearing hogwash?
I agree thet their marketing (pricing) strategies are rough, but their warranty is nice to have, IMHO. Perhaps I'm just new and too nearsighted? Is the warranty they offer not worth it?
In the motorcycle industry the same thing happened with Arai (arguably one of the best helmet manufacturers) pulling all internet sales and they will not warrant anything purchased online. I will not buy their products because I feel it's idiotic of them. Perhaps I should take the same attitude with ScubaPro and look at Apeks instead. If I find LDS's that service them I will definitely look into them. Thanks for opening my eyes.

The preference isn't really to pistons in warm water, just that many consider ScubaPro regs to be likely free flow candidates in cold water. If an enviromentally sealed daiphragm reg is your best bet for cold deep ice diving, it will be just as reliable in the tropics.

ScubaPro's marketing strategy just seems destined to fail. If regulators were sold off shelfs at Walmart, would you choose the minimum advertized price protected SP reg or the free market brand X reg at half the price, quality and performance being equal? Whether or not you buy online, the net has shown people that they don't have to rely on an LDS for advise and availability. I also don't think that SP's stance on warranties would stand up in court. Their hard line on net sales hasn't driven me into the arms of a SP dealer, just turned me off from ever buying their stuff.

I can't quote what Apeks warranties are but as a major brand, rep'd by Aqualung, rest assured it is likely as good as most anyone else's. By comparison, Zeagle makes regs very similar in quality and performance to Apeks. They also offer lifetime parts with an annual service (service itself at your expense). I recently bought a used Zeagle BC for one of my kids thru a LDS that took it in on trade and is not an authorized Zeagle dealer. There was a problem with one of the lower dumps and I took it to another LDS that is a Zeagle dealer. They sent it back to Zeagle where the problem was resolved, no questions asked and at only the cost of shipping. Why would I consider SP and their heavy handed practices when competitors such as this are available? Likely, you are looking at ScubaPro only because thats what your LDS sells and they are using all of the no warranty scare tactics on you. Do yourself a favor and look at some other stuff too.

 

[rescuediver009]

Don't be worried about the marketting. Scubapro and apeks both are so reputable that as you can see their name gets around by word of mouth. There is not mention of the Apeks warranty on their site because it would be explained at the LDS where you buy it, since apeks does not solicit online buying. Yes I know it still goes on. Don't be scared, no one has online warranty info. Or at least its rare. This can't solved simply without getting into the Apeks vs. Scubapro debate. If they are in warmer waters, you will likely be closer to a SP dealer than an apeks. If you are diving colder you will likely see Apeks. Go with what is easiest for you.

As far as which one, I would recommend a diaphragm so as to minimize rinsing labor. It will also last alot longer, as these divers do not exactly baby the euipment as it is not theirs or their money to maintain it from what I have seen with dive teams.

 

[uberspeed]

After much more reading...
Can we compare the following? Apeks ATX40, AquaLung Titan LX (Supreme better?), and SP MK16/R190. Would you say environmentally sealed has advantages that I would benefit from? I'll be diving warm water only for the forseeable future, but who knows what's down the road.
As far as I can tell none of the 3 manufacturers in question approve of online buying so that's a null point. From what I have read AL and SP both have lifetime warranties with parts included as well. Not sure on Apeks.

Thanks in advance.

 

[rescuediver009]

After much more reading...
Can we compare the following? Apeks ATX40, AquaLung Titan LX (Supreme better?), and SP MK16/R190. Would you say environmentally sealed has advantages that I would benefit from?

I would say that the environmental kit is something that will help maintain the first stage. It keeps the internalsbelow the diaphragm clean. If you don't want the environmental kit, take a look at the AT20. It is a US4 first stage with the same second without aheat sink. Same performance. The only other change I would make for your comparison, is the R190 on the Scubapro reg. I would replace with the S550 as it is balanced like the ATX40 and the LX.....

From what I have read AL and SP both have lifetime warranties with parts included as well. Not sure on Apeks.

Also parts for life

 

[DA Aquamaster]

The advantage of a balanced second stage is that the cracking effort will remain nearly constant as the IP rises (diaphragm first stage) or falls (piston first stage) as the tank pressure falls.

But the logically inevitable question is what is the practical advantage of a balanced second stage when used with a balanced first stage where the IP is for all intents and purposes constant. The logical answer is that there really isn't one as an unbalanced second stage like the R190 or R390 can be set to breathe very well when it is on a balanced first stage like the Mk 16.

A Mk 16 S550 would offer no real advantage over a properly tuned Mk 16 R190, it would just cost about $110 more.

 

[uberspeed]

That's what I thought DA, as my experience from paintball and the extensive use of regulators there, you see that often you can "skip one" in the chain. Looks like after all is said and done I have looked at Apeks, SP, AL, Zeagle and Atomic and the SPMK16/R190 combo looks like a great reg for me right now. Thanks all! In the future I'll revisit this when I get into more technical diving, etc. or as my needs change.